Author Topic: DP League (Read 12974 times)

Michael_Fornal · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2003, 12:41:21 PM »

Bleh, maps are a matter of personal preference, there should be no group that rules over who can play what. I can understand if someone makes a map that is totally lopsided and has all kinds of secret holes in the walls and the next day sends it to clan and says they're matching with it that night or something like that.

But these maps have been around, and are very popular. You are in the vast minority not liking arctic and strap.

RoyalBlood · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2003, 02:32:01 PM »

Maybe you guys dont understand what im saying. Its a league, not a do-whatever-you-want-free-for-all. Each team can pick their own map, FROM a list of league maps. Whether or not Sandtrap or Arctic get used will largely depend on the format of the league and how many teams we are expecting to play. If the league is 4v4 matches, which I feel is what we should aim for, then unfortunately Sandtrap and Arctic just arent ideal for that and would completely make the whole concept of teamplay meaningless, which is the whole purpose of the league. Even if both teams want to play one of those maps, I think its in the best interest of competition and teamplay for that to be disallowed. The idea is to have each match be of equal weight competitively. If one clan constantly plays 3v3 on crates or arctic for their maps and another is playing 4v4 on brainstorm and midnight2 all the time, those are completely different types of matches and dont hold equal weight. For a league to work every match needs to be relatively equal to every one, otherwise you lose the whole concept of competition.

Ok I think we can agree that maps are a big concern and everyone has different opinons on that. That will be noted. Now lets try to put out some other ideas and opinions on the league outside of map issues. We aint ironing out a maplist (if there is one) for a while yet, so its best to talk more about that later. What about format? How long do you want it to last, or how many matches inolved? Anything about substituting? I'm sure theres a lot of other things you can think of too.

RoyalBlood · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2003, 02:36:38 PM »

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Bleh, maps are a matter of personal preference, there should be no group that rules over who can play what. I can understand if someone makes a map that is totally lopsided and has all kinds of secret holes in the walls and the next day sends it to clan and says they're matching with it that night or something like that.

I dont disagree with you.. for a normal match. But its a league and you gotta expect that you cant just have everything go according to your own personal preference. The league has to make rules and organize according to what works best for the league, not what works best for an individual person or what one person might like the most. Thats just common sense. If we just did everything according to whats most popular or let everyone do what they wanted, then it would just be chaotic and hugely unsuccessfull.

And I dont dislike Sandtrap or Arctic, I love them and enjoy playing them. However there is a time and a place for them and if this league is gunna be different and better than any other ones before it (and also if you guys want DP to actually revive and thrive in general) then this is not a time and place for them. Jitspoe is right, maybe you guys dont remember the beta days like we do. 4v4 matches were the norm and people played on bigger, nonlinear maps all the time. And it was a lot better and more rewarding of an experience than these cheap pathetic excuses for matches that is common nowadays.

ichabod · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2003, 08:15:34 PM »

MUuuuuuhahahah... Im back..... anyways, my two cents on this pissing contest you homos are having. First.... be quiet.... stop yer b1tch1ng... grow up... and play DP.. Nough said....... Oh wait, one more thing... fembot... blow me......

jitspoe · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2003, 12:46:00 AM »

Complain about the rules all you want, but when you have organized, structured competitions, there is more fun to be had.

Now, on to some ideas:

I would like to see some friendly fire matches -- bring back some long-lost stratigies.

The standard 20-minute/50-point limit seems to work well.

There should almost be a rule against unsportsmanlike conduct. Some of these children just need to be spanked.

There should be a ref for each match.

Everyone should be required to record demos in case there is some questionable behavior...

Matches should be planned in advance, with the maps and teams already picked out. If a clan doesn't show up with enough members on the match night, they'll just have to duke it out 2v4 or whatever. (under reasonable circumstances or agreement of the opposing team, the match can be rescheduled, of course).

Players can't play for more than one clan.

Clans should have some basic requirements -- like a minimum of 5 people, a web page w/records, etc. Basically some kind of stable organization that's been lacking in some of the clans these days.

Minimum of 3 people on a team for the match to count.

</brainstorm>

Michael_Fornal · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2003, 04:57:38 AM »

I sure as hell remember playing alot of matches on ksplat1,ksplat3, and strap back in the "old days" of DP when blizzard were the only LPBs.

Tell me those were strategy-like. You're just remember the side you liked, not everything.

But I degress.. you're both wrong, so we can just end this little discussion and move on.

RoyalBlood · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2003, 06:14:20 PM »

I agree with all your ideas Jitspoe except partially for friendly fire. I like friendly fire grenades. But cuz of the similarities in blue and purple and how fast the balls shot and how easily they can get lost in the background, i just think it would be too frustrating to use full friendly fire. And you KNOW everyone would female dog about that even more than about the maps

Fryth · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2003, 07:08:59 PM »

MFornal, I know he said it; I disagreed with him. No need to point out that he is "my buddy"? I don't think there is a need to make sides here. We're just brainstorming ideas for a league.

jitspoe · « **Reply #28 on:** January 15, 2003, 07:21:21 PM »

That's why you need to know where your teammates are -- not have everyone run randomly around. A good team will have a structured stratigy and know who to shoot at even if they can't tell the colors.

Michael_Fornal · « **Reply #29 on:** January 15, 2003, 07:32:27 PM »

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MFornal, I know he said it; I disagreed with him. No need to point out that he is "my buddy"? I don't think there is a need to make sides here. We're just brainstorming ideas for a league.

Question marks inside the quotes, sir.

Fryth · « **Reply #30 on:** January 15, 2003, 07:49:28 PM »

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Question marks inside the quotes, sir.

Dubious. I found some websites which say some punctuation is exempted, some websites which say all punctuation is outside, some that say all punctuation is inside, and some that say for dialogue and speech it's inside the quotes, for other quotations it's outside the quotes. Beats the excrement out of me.

Dirty_Taco · « **Reply #31 on:** January 15, 2003, 10:28:29 PM »

Post removed

Blitz · « **Reply #32 on:** January 16, 2003, 03:48:19 AM »

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A good team will have a structured stratigy and know who to shoot at even if they can't tell the colors.

I disagree... more complicated maps create stategic gameplay - which has the potential to make it MORE difficult to distinguish between friend/foe once things are branched out into multiple paths/backdoors/etc.

Fryth · « **Reply #33 on:** January 16, 2003, 12:44:19 PM »

Since we never seem to derivate from the topic of map restriction, here's my definite opinion: Don't. It would be *great* if DP became an ultra-strategic mod with maps like cfire being played all the time. But I'm not even so sure arctic and sandtrap lack teamplay elements - they just don't have the same kind of teamplay (a much better kind in my opinion) as cfire or pforest or whatever.

But the word 'whatever' is key here. Who are we to draw a line in the sand about which maps are 'strategic'? It's pretentious in my opinion.

Mister_Zimbu · « **Reply #34 on:** January 16, 2003, 12:57:36 PM »

What about a compromise?

Each team plays each other twice in the main "season" of the league. First round the maps are either A) given to the teams B) choses by the teams from a list.

The second time the team matches each other they choose the maps.

RoyalBlood · « **Reply #35 on:** January 16, 2003, 03:37:49 PM »

Thats partially what im thinknig Zimbu. I am indeed thinking each team plays each other in their division twice. However i dont think we should make it "gimmicky" where one time they play it this way and the other time its that way. Im saying each clan has their own choice of maps, only its out of a list of maps. And im not saying like itll only be 5 maps or so, itll be a lot of maps. Just we want to make sure they are regulated in someway.

Now guys, actually think realistic for a change. You know that not regulating the maps in someway would be disastrious. It seams that those of you who are thinking im out of my mind for even thinking that a map like Arctic shouldnt be allowed are just too afraid to do something different. Your already used to the simple linear maps and too lazy or unsure of yourself or your teammates to want to try maps that are more involving. Thats the whole point of the league. To do something different than the typical everyday clan match. A TEAM league must have TEAM maps and rules according to what is best for a competitive TEAM matches. Thats the point. So think along those lines, not along whats most convenient. Thats boring.

Good thread tho. Keep them opinions coming. Trust me, they are appreciated and taking into consideration.

jitspoe · « **Reply #36 on:** January 16, 2003, 07:15:53 PM »

I certainly hope commitment won’t be an issue like it currently is with clans and matches. We need the clans to stay together through the season. I don’t want it to start out with like 8 clans and end with like 2...

Also, I’m not sure about the whole season thing. I remember a while back someone came up with an algorithm for clan ranking that took into account things like the number of matches, the ranking of the clans it matched and whatnot, so wins against good clans counted for more than wins against newbie clans. We should let clans match other clans of their choosing, but winning against a poorly-ranked clan won’t help them much. Well, the season thing would be kinda cool too. It’d be nice to have a way to incorporate both.

Blitz: I’ve seen how some really structured CS clans play. They practice the map and lay out strategies before the match. If person X dies, they know the enemy is at location Y, and person Z needs to go over there and head them off. Think of football -- In a little game with some friends, you might run around randomly and be like “throw me the ball! I’m open!” (current pb2 community), but pro football players have a game plan. They have the plays laid out and know who is going to be where -- teamwork. That’s what I want to promote with this.

Another thing that we should think about -- what all should I be putting in the new version to make this more manageable? I was thinking the rounds should definitely wait for both team captains to say “ready” or something, giving ample time to swap players out, discuss strategies, etc.

Mister_Zimbu · « **Reply #37 on:** January 16, 2003, 09:41:53 PM »

The way I see it, clan mode should work as follows:

Up to four clans can be set up on the server, each with a password.

A "clan" would consist of a name, abbreviation, captain, and password (so the cvars would be like clan1_name, clan1_abbrev, clan1_password...). Players would join a "clan" on a server using a command (either "join" or "joinclan"). The captain would choose the teams, and give the "ready" signal.

This way, a server can remain open to observers to watch the match (observer talk could be disabled to players).

The abbreviation would be used as a file id system-- skin support should be enabled if a clan wants to use a different skin than what their color is. Other files can also by identified (maybe like a team banner instead of the color splat in the score list). So if a clan's abbreviation was "Marines", their skin would be "Marines_skin.jpg" and their banner would be "Marines_banner.jpg".

Michael_Fornal · « **Reply #38 on:** January 17, 2003, 03:56:59 AM »

Jitspoe,

Your idea of teamwork in that way would be all fine and dandy if this were CS - but it's not.

In CS, the maps are large and you start out with weapons. It's easy to setup a position and stick with it, etc.

In DP, you don't start out with weapons and depending on where you spawn, you have to go to different spots each time to get different weapons. Which means it'll take longer to get to a certain spot - and with the size of maps in DP, that probably means someone or multiple people from the other team have already rushed to the point or beyond where you were going to station yourself.

Also, with strafe jumping, it's not nearly as realistic to think when someone dies, you can run over and cover the spot they just died at, because the opponent moves so darn fast. It's not that easy. Maybe if there were no jumping and everyone moved a slow steady speed that could work.

And to setup positions and stick to them in DP means you have to stay still - which means you're probably dead. If I am playing a clan that has set spots, I could easily rush in and take them out. They are sitting still. So they have two options - camp quietly and hope you don't know where they are or spray a spot so you can't get by.

If they are spraying.. you know where they are generally.. go under or over the spray and bam.. hit the still target. If they are camping, they're still and not even shooting- even easier.

I think to even compare strategy for CS with DP is rediculous.

jitspoe · « **Reply #39 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:56:28 AM »

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and with the size of maps in DP

That's why we shouldn't have matches on the crappy small maps.