Digital Paint Discussion Board
Digital Paint Community => Other Stuff => Topic started by: Smokey on January 22, 2008, 11:49:17 AM
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HEAD FOR CANADA.
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OUR CURRENCY IS BETTER THAN YOUR CURRENCY!!!
TIMES TWO!!!
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The stock market crashed globally. It's not just us. :P
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But yet, FTSE for the win ;)
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OUR CURRENCY IS BETTER THAN YOUR CURRENCY!!!
TIMES TWO!!!
If the U.S. falls the germans will eventually own you. As for canada.... The two reasons no one messes with you.. 1) Look who your next door neighbor is. 2) you're all too high.
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We all know Canada is USA's hat.
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Anyone else hear about this? - The US government is giving everyone (or every family, forgot what they said) in the US $500 to stimulate the economy. Heard it on the radio a couple of days ago.
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Nopyo, that wouldn't be the first time Bush has offered rebates to stimulate the economy.
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Anyone else hear about this? - The US government is giving everyone (or every family, forgot what they said) in the US $500 to stimulate the economy. Heard it on the radio a couple of days ago.
Inflation would eat that instantly.
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Wouldnt that increase inflation, lol.
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He's not printing money then handing it out, it's a refund from the governments tax collection.
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These funny kids acting like they know about economics. It will be interesting to see the result of the decrease in the discount rate as well.
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Well this morning you can get 30 year mortgages for just over 4.75%. If it drops anymore, I'm going to refinance my 5.5% that I currently have.
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We all know Canada is USA's hat.
We all know the United States is Canada's ass.
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We all know the United States is Canada's ass.
so together North America is an ass hat?
Well this morning you can get 30 year mortgages for just over 4.75%. If it drops anymore, I'm going to refinance my 5.5% that I currently have.
My poor wife is trying to pay ours off in 5 years and we just bought it. Something about having no bills. Didn't think that was possible but so far we both have 2006 vehicles and both are paid for. Not to mention my bike and the one that should be completed this summer.
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That sounds like Dave Ramsey's Method (http://www.daveramsey.com/)
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These funny kids acting like they know about economics. It will be interesting to see the result of the decrease in the discount rate as well.
This funny kid has a degree in management.
But, I'm not surprised hearing that from the most judgmental and holier than you person in DP.
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sorry edge.... but management and economics are very different. As to what darkie said earlier... I agree some what. People should really make a point to learn a little before making comments.
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Well good thing that degree in management has taught you everything right? I mean if the government gives money back to the people, it's going to be spent. Although increased spending increases inflation, it reduces unemployment as well.
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sorry edge.... but management and economics are very different. As to what darkie said earlier... I agree some what. People should really make a point to learn a little before making comments.
fl1p I had economics through my collegue education. Micro, macro, and specialized tourism economics. So it's not like I'm blabling. So I think I can say that I learned before I made any comment, wont you agree?
Second part for Darkness - I never said I know everything. You started this one, remember that, by provoking me with little kids. And I have no problem in saying that I don't respect you at all as a person. Because of your lack of manners and respect for others that don't agree with
you. And I know that you don't give a shi, it's really easy to be someone else on the inet.
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Recession in general means death to small business. Although I don't know the number of small business that are closed in USA, the number of people who looses their job, and gets a new one, would be about the same.
To really push up economy you need to proactive and make some changes. But as I recall, Bush don't really mind about inner economy, since he has to feed big companies, and that companies will only prosper by this action.
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Thank meddling god Bush'll be gone soon; unfortunately, no one who's running seems to be capable of doing anything.
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It's easy to theoryse on economy since factors and variables aren't included. Inflation has hitten every singel country in this world thanks to the barrel price and the fact that the most common merchandise has gone over rooftop on global market (sugar, oil...).
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Thank meddling god Bush'll be gone soon; unfortunately, no one who's running seems to be capable of doing anything.
Unfortunately their campaigns are sponsored by the companies which are encouraging inflation. And USA directs prices for the rest of the world. So it's not like it's bad situation only there. Our wage basket based on average salary can't cover general life needs.
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Can't cover general life needs or cover the luxurious life that Americans seek and pay heavily for? I'm pretty sure that there are people in second and third world countries who make practically nothing and still have their general life needs taken care of.
fl1p I had economics through my collegue education.
What kind of education is that?
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Can't cover general life needs or cover the luxurious life that Americans seek and pay heavily for? I'm pretty sure that there are people in second and third world countries who make practically nothing and still have their general life needs taken care of.
General life needs mean - cost of living, cost of food and similar, no luxuries included.
Education is economist - touristic manager
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It's kinda funny when people talk about the cost of living. I know certain things increase in price over the years but not as drastically as people seem to think. The one thing that does seem to increase depending on where you live is the cost of housing. Everything else seems to remain the same. I personally have lived almost everywhere in the world in my short life. So to say the cost of living has increased so much to cause economical disaster is plain pointless. I doubt a 10 cent increase in milk and butter is really destroying your way of life. If that is indeed the case then maybe you should attend college for something useful to increase your chances of obtaining a job that will pay off in the long run.
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I'm talking about average cost of living in my country.
And from your words I can see that you have never lived in a country that is going through transition. Our outer debt covers if I remember correctly about 80% of our GDP. And prices are high thanks to your dear president who managed to increase price of barrel from 30something dollars at the beginning of his presidency to the place where he want it - around 100 bucks.
And fl1p, I am quite happy with my education, I knew what I wanted since I was 12 y.o. You don't need to lecture me what should or could do in my life.
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I'm pretty sure that the president doesn't want oil at $100 a barrel... That would good for OPEC, not for the USA.
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Are you joking me Edge? What are Earth are you talking about? I love how every time these Euro people have a problem they blame it on President Bush. I suggest you do a little reading up on something called OPEC before you claim the United State is the reason that oil prices are so high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC
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Are you joking me Edge? What are Earth are you talking about? I love how every time these Euro people have a problem they blame it on President Bush. I suggest you do a little reading up on something called OPEC before you claim the United State is the reason that oil prices are so high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC
I see you don't know nothing about geopolitics.
William Endghal - Century of war
Edit - no I'm not joking you. And as for the OPEC - main players in there like Shell, BP and others are from USA and GB - that's a fact. So is the fact that they control most of worlds oil and that they are increasing their price through politics.
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Edit - no I'm not joking you. And as for the OPEC - main players in there like Shell, BP and others are from USA and GB - that's a fact.
See, the funny thing about facts...
The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) is a permanent intergovernmental organization, created at the Baghdad Conference on September 10–14, 1960, by Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. The five Founding Members were later joined by nine other Members: Qatar (1961); Indonesia (1962); Socialist Peoples Libyan Arab Jamahiriya (1962); United Arab Emirates (1967); Algeria (1969); Nigeria (1971); Ecuador (1973)
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Looks like Edgecrusher's facts have been living a lie.
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See, the funny thing about facts...
You see that the main countries in there are being controlled by USA from 1st World War. Who is buying out oil from those countries? Please read the book so you can try to attack my arguments. Right now you are just shooting blanks.
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Funny how economical trends that develop over years and years are instantly blamed on a President that has been in office for a short time.
I hate <insert current president's name here> bashers. You kind of people do nothing but focus on the biased media and bash whatever president is in office, regardless of party. Fact of the matter is, there will never be a perfect president. They're politicians for God's sake. That means they all lie cheat and steal my default. No current presidential candidate will perform the miracles you so desperately seek. You will be disappointed and begin the bashing all over again come November.
I, personally, like the fact that Bush has had the balls to go after terrorists. The US hasn't been attacked on it's soil again since 911. Why is this? Do any of you seriously think they said, "We kill many many Americans and have taught them a lesson...we are done with them."? No. They have definitely had and have plans to attack America on it's own soil. You can thank Bush (and Clinton to a degree) for taking the fight away from our homeland. I don't care if you think there is some OIL or POWER agenda. We have NOT been attacked again. Thank the balls of the US administration for that. War is a necessity of life on Earth. It has been since the beginning of recorded history. There is no Utopia here. Differences in religious belief ensure that will be the case for all of the foreseeable future.
There is no fantasy land here.
If you live in the US stand the intercourse up and fight for your freedom or get the hell out of the country. YES...leave if you don't like. Go somewhere less free and enjoy life!!!
The young men and women of the US are spoiled brats.
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All your points would mean something if war was cheap. But it isn't, so it isn't a simple matter of "omg let's fight the terrorists!!!11." There is no fantasy land--just standing up to fight without considering the effects down the road is just ignorant and stupid.
And as for less free, I don't know about that. The US government has been bent on detaining individuals without legitimate reason and wiretapping us all.
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(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1774/zomgiu7.jpg)
:O
Recede this post count!
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Funny how economical trends that develop over years and years are instantly blamed on a President that has been in office for a short time.
I hate <insert current president's name here> bashers. You kind of people do nothing but focus on the biased media and bash whatever president is in office, regardless of party. Fact of the matter is, there will never be a perfect president. They're politicians for God's sake. That means they all lie cheat and steal my default. No current presidential candidate will perform the miracles you so desperately seek. You will be disappointed and begin the bashing all over again come November.
I, personally, like the fact that Bush has had the balls to go after terrorists. The US hasn't been attacked on it's soil again since 911. Why is this? Do any of you seriously think they said, "We kill many many Americans and have taught them a lesson...we are done with them."? No. They have definitely had and have plans to attack America on it's own soil. You can thank Bush (and Clinton to a degree) for taking the fight away from our homeland. I don't care if you think there is some OIL or POWER agenda. We have NOT been attacked again. Thank the balls of the US administration for that. War is a necessity of life on Earth. It has been since the beginning of recorded history. There is no Utopia here. Differences in religious belief ensure that will be the case for all of the foreseeable future.
There is no fantasy land here.
If you live in the US stand the intercourse up and fight for your freedom or get the hell out of the country. YES...leave if you don't like. Go somewhere less free and enjoy life!!!
The young men and women of the US are spoiled brats.
That would be great if things were that simple.
Tell me of 1 war that haven't been fought because of economy.
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Darkness, really, rather go do something constructive than flaming people.
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Tell me of 1 war that haven't been fought because of economy.
It's not always about money, sometimes we just want the Holy Land. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War)
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You know that Israel got their land based on politics after 2nd WW. And also they got it for their geostrategical position. It's the divide of the world and all is connected to money.
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Funny how economical trends that develop over years and years are instantly blamed on a President that has been in office for a short time.
I hate <insert current president's name here> bashers. You kind of people do nothing but focus on the biased media and bash whatever president is in office, regardless of party. Fact of the matter is, there will never be a perfect president. They're politicians for God's sake. That means they all lie cheat and steal my default. No current presidential candidate will perform the miracles you so desperately seek. You will be disappointed and begin the bashing all over again come November.
I, personally, like the fact that Bush has had the balls to go after terrorists. The US hasn't been attacked on it's soil again since 911. Why is this? Do any of you seriously think they said, "We kill many many Americans and have taught them a lesson...we are done with them."? No. They have definitely had and have plans to attack America on it's own soil. You can thank Bush (and Clinton to a degree) for taking the fight away from our homeland. I don't care if you think there is some OIL or POWER agenda. We have NOT been attacked again. Thank the balls of the US administration for that. War is a necessity of life on Earth. It has been since the beginning of recorded history. There is no Utopia here. Differences in religious belief ensure that will be the case for all of the foreseeable future.
There is no fantasy land here.
If you live in the US stand the intercourse up and fight for your freedom or get the hell out of the country. YES...leave if you don't like. Go somewhere less free and enjoy life!!!
The young men and women of the US are spoiled brats.
And why did Bush attacked the iraq?
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Well said S8N. If you guys don't like the U.S. then get the f-word out okay? You all act like the U.S. is so horrible and that so many other places in the world are better. If that's the case then gtfo.
And Hauke, you're right. Freeing a country from a dictatorship which used chemical weapons on its own people is a horrible thing.
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Funny how economical trends that develop over years and years are instantly blamed on a President that has been in office for a short time.
I hate <insert current president's name here> bashers. You kind of people do nothing but focus on the biased media and bash whatever president is in office, regardless of party. Fact of the matter is, there will never be a perfect president.
Of course there won't. You can't keep everyone happy all the time...
...but to say that our current president is just 'imperfect' is taking it too far. Have you seen the state of things? How's our economy been doing? How're our rights doing? How's our government doing? What about other countries approval? They're all pretty bad. We're throwing money away at an unwinnable war, 'increased security' is gnawing away at our individual rights, and our current leader and his pals seems to like to surround himself with his friends and remove those who disagree with him.
If you want to talk about 'going after terrorists', I'd like to know how you think we've won this fight. Since 9/11, our rights have been squelched in a security panic, suspicious people have been targeted, and thousands of Americans have died due to 'The War on Terror'.
leave if you don't like. Go somewhere less free and enjoy life!!!
A 'less free' country where you can protest without being abused by police? One where you can communicate with others without fear of being spied on? Sounds great.
The young men and women of the US are spoiled brats.
Eeh... no argument here.
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And would you like to tell me which crucial rights of ours have been limited?
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Free speech (Awful video, but it's all police footage, so... (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24883005))
Free speech (No protest for you! (http://boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/01/21/plan_for_designated_protest_space_on_dc_mall_debated/))
Privacy/Unreasonable search (Wiretapping, 'course)
Trial by Jury (Guantanamo! And stuff like this (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3208))
...and many more, I'm sure.
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And would you like to tell me which crucial rights of ours have been limited?
Dark, You must be uninformed about the chipping away of our human rights by our government.
Lookup "The Patriot Act", "Real ID", "Bush Impeachment".
This is hardly a democracy anymore.
Edit: Watch This:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24883005
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Way to link to a video I linked to, Smokey. :<
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Well said S8N. If you guys don't like the U.S. then get the f-word out okay? You all act like the U.S. is so horrible and that so many other places in the world are better. If that's the case then gtfo.
And Hauke, you're right. Freeing a country from a dictatorship which used chemical weapons on its own people is a horrible thing.
Youre right Saddam was a cruel dictator..
but the current situation in iraq isnt better. The whole Iraq war is a total disaster, everyone knows that but bush still defends the war. You should know that war never disolves Problems.
Edit: This has nothing to do with the recession, has it?
On Topic: I dont care about the recession i´m poor anyway.
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Sure, war solves problems when you do it right. The current war is an example of one not done right.
EDIT: I am, by the way, looking forward to hearing back from Darkness/S8N.
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I believe in peace and that war it self is a problem. But you´re right, sometimes it seems that there is no other option..
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To me, Afghanistan isn't a question. We went there to eliminate the terrorists, and will probably remain there for a long time to come.
Iraq, on the other hand is a different story. The US should have went all the way when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The US did not, and only went in when it did out of the convenience of having the forces close by with nothing to do. Fact of the matter is Iraq was in violation of many many UN treaties, but the UN didn't have the balls to act. The US did. The outcome, or the stalemate rather, that the US is locked in now would have been inevitable no matter when the US went in. The nature of the region presents a very difficult goal, but a goal that must be met if that region is to me made safe from the support of terrorism now, and in the future.
Furthermore, backing out of Iraq, regardless of why or when we went in, would be more costly than remaining there and making a viable attempt at stabilizing the country.
Am I the only one here that fully understand this Terminator quote, and how it eerily defines terrorists today?
Kyle Reese: Listen. And understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.
There is no option but to fight or die. Terrorists have made it clear that they will get inside our borders and kill many. And they will not stop. Fight them here, or fight them there.
We are less free post 911. true
The US must know more in order to successfully stop further attempts at attacking us.
Less intelligence = more danger of 911 x 1000, which is 911000, and that's scary.
WE CAN'T AFFORD IT OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great...then we will afford the deaths that will result in doing nothing, which will be many.
We have to afford it.
War has happened and will continue to happen forever. I hate war, but recognize its existence. Humans are selfish and destructive. We war, that's what we do.
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First off, you people all act like being President of the United States is such an easy thing.
Second of all, do you not realize that there are these things out there called terrorists, and they hate us so much they are willing to give their lives to hurt us?
Lookup "The Patriot Act", "Real ID", "Bush Impeachment".
Lookup "September 11"
You see, the terrorists are going to try and attack us no matter what. So like S8N said, we could either take the fight away from the United States or bring it here. How many of you have actually read the Patriot Act?
I figured you would bring up the Privacy issue Eiii. But the way I see it, I know I'm not doing anything illegal so I couldn't care less if the government wants to listen to my phone calls. Who knows maybe I'll 3-way call them for now on to make it easier.
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I'm all for a war if there's an enemy to fight. In this case, there isn't. We're just kind of throwing troops into another country and shooting at things. That's not to say there's been no success- there has been. But there's no clearly defined enemy in this case, so there's no way to win.
The answer, in my opinion, was to bunker in, not lash out. We don't have anyone to fight. Some temporary extra security measures would have been acceptable- but the extent it's been taken it is unacceptable.
I figured you would bring up the Privacy issue Eiii. But the way I see it, I know I'm not doing anything illegal so I couldn't care less if the government wants to listen to my phone calls. Who knows maybe I'll 3-way call them for now on to make it easier.
That's more or less the stance I have, but if we, as a people, allow it, it'll only be a matter of time before it's abused. Big time. Per the video I posted above, riot police are already using cameras at peaceful protests to identify dissenters. I think the implications of that are pretty clear.
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I'm just wondering what do Iraq's thinks of this so called war. How many innocent children have died, women and man also? Casualty of war? That's just BS. Beside, war is over as I remember. So how come hundreds of them die every day who have nothing to do with it. I'll ask you another question. Would you not fight if Iraq invaded USA and now is in controll of it? This has nothing to do with Democracy.
U.S. invaded Iraq sourly on purpose of contorling one of the richest oil part of the world.
Terrorism is secondary in this. There were NO evidence on biochemical weapons or weapons of mass destruction. Furthermore, remember who trained those terrorist and who installed Saddam on his presidency.
You are idealist if you think that this war will protect you in any way and that USA is helping those people. You have not seen war, you haven't felt it so you don't know what you are talking about. You can not justify it. I'm amazed that you are even trying.
I will never forget what USA, GB, France, Netherlands and whole NATO pact did to my country when we fought our war of liberation. But we won. Without your help. So you could really try to get some facts straight before trying to make your arguments only on your national feelings. That has nothing to do with it.
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but if we, as a people, allow it, it'll only be a matter of time before it's abused. Big time.
You're supposed to quote Benjamin Franklin now:
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.
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In case you didn't know.... flip is an ex-military man. I spent 3 years in kuwait and iraq. I was priviliged to a lot of information the average person was not. Trust me on this one folks... based on the ruling group alone in iraq there were plenty of reasons for us to go. I knew something right at the end of the war that most people still can't get through their skulls. Most of the resistance the allies face in iraq are not even iraqi. The majority is young dumb teenagers from other countries that are looking for something to believe in. Sort of like the hippies, the korean teenage protesters, the average teen who lashes out all across the world. But... unlike iraq... it all boils down to... what have you learned growing up? what is the difference between right and wrong?
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lol@S8N, Hitler has revived!
I don't wish to talk about politics over the internet because its just useless...but comon..you are happy about not having war at your door?
What about the millions that die and live in misery everyday in your country? Not you I'm sure, so why should you care? There is a lot of people dieing in my country too and I don't do anything about it either. But..lol..we got to thank bush not having war at our doors?
And get out of my country if you don't like something? wow.
:)
edit:I was responding about your post in the second page btw, havent got the time to read the rest right now.
But I'm pretty sure its the same line of thinking anyway :)
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That's not at all what the rest of us are saying, mag.
Also: eek (http://www.thenewfreedom.net/wp/2008/01/28/citizen-blogger-censored-detained-by-the-fbi/).
EDIT: More support (http://www.icomment.org/index.php/main/video/show?id=433325:Video:122&). The BBC is pretty reliable, right? Right.
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This is to all who even think they can validate attack on another country. Part of your childehood was not this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_6Mw5zXUtZ4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sU0JPXUmg44&feature=related
So please, defend your policy even more. Ignorants, not looking on the big picture. Just for the greatness of the USA. People are dieng for no cause at all and you 2 think it's for the greater good. BS. It's for the good of oil companies, construction companies and so on and on. So don't give me the speach OMGZ we were attacked we must defend!!! Open your eyes. People are meaningless in every war, I wonder would you still talk like that if you had really experienced war.
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With the president talk... We need Bill Clinton back.. but thats my opinion.
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Here let's try this. Imagine. You're an 8 year old kid. One day as your sitting home with mom you realize that daddy is not coming home after work. The next day daddy still hasn't come home. You go on with your life never knowing why daddy didn't come home. Fast forward a few years. You are now a grown man. You marry the love of your life and have three wonderful kids. One day your wife is out visiting her parents. You come home wondering why she has not made it home. Your kids are crying and screaming for mommy but she never comes home. Years pass and your children are all grown up. As you sit thinking about the good times in your life you here from your neighbor that all of your kids have been rounded up by the "police". Try as you might no one will tell you anything. As you start to die of natural causes the only thing you can think about on your death bed is "what ever happened to all the people in my life I cared about?" If you think the war was just about oil I would ask you to maybe read up on the history of Iraq. Also I would trade my memories for yours. I was standing in a small town in this country when an old lady walked up to me and motioned for me to follow her. Luckily I had one of my Arabic linguist with me. He was trying to find out what she wanted but all she would say is that she had to show us something. Reluctantly I grabbed a few of my soldiers and off we went. She led us to what seemed like a barren area of dirt right on the side of the town. As we stood watching she began to dig. Other locals soon began coming over and helping. After just a little while but to us seemed an eternity one of the guys started yelling. Looking at my linguist he translated for me. "He says he's found one sarge" As we continued to look on a body was brought forth from the ground. It was a slightly decomposed body of a young man. We stood horrified as other bodies were brought out. There was altogether a little over a hundred. After contacting my C.O. and having the site cornered off we sat down to talk to a few of the people. They told us these were family members of people in the town who had been tortured and killed a few months prior. They knew all along where they were buried but were to afraid to retrieve their loved ones until we arrived. They spent the next couple of weeks thanking every allied group who came through their town no matter if it was American, British or anyone of the numerous small countries who lent a hand in the demolition of the the dictatorship. I would highly suggest some of you youngsters who have your mind set in ways to open it and think of how you would feel in their shoes. I'm sick and tired of people complaining about the war. It was something the leaders of several governments decided on after the U.S. took the lead so deal with it. You don't have to agree with it but at least do something like 1) support your government and the troops who were/are there. 2)Be proactive in elections to place someone you like in the position of authority so you can't complain when they have to make the same kind of decision.
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To start lets please stop with that youngsters thing! As I see this there are youngsters much better informed about this matter than the 'olders'. Besides all the youngsters here have already listen opinions of people much older and with a much better knowledge in this matter than the olders we have over here.
What your country is trying (at least they say so) is to protect your freedom and if possible give freedom to all that people in iraq etc. Now when you guys post about how we shouldnt complain about our, or others government..guys thats taking away the freedom you fight so much to get.
Even if I voted on someone and that someone won, I have the right to criticize that someone.
And when some ugly dumb person says he's invading iraq because they have massive destruction weapons, even when the UN tell him not to, and afterall there was not even 1 of those in the all country...boy I'm gonna criticize him a lot either you like it or not.
But right now I'm more worried about my country policys so I'll just let you guys keep this discussion. Sorry but sometimes I can't hold myself and I have to post responding to opinions regarding important matters that I don't agree with.
Now, let's play some DigitalPaint:Paintball2 =]
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Lol The term youngster is a term of affection around here. sorry if that bothers you. As far as knowing more than the olders you apparently do not. The "war" was not started over him having WMD. It was simply due to two reasons. 1) He did not up hold to his end of the terms of search laid down by the U.N. ... not the U.S. 2) The general homicide of innocent people at an alarming rate by him and his. You do have the right to do w/e you want. By all means do it. Also just to throw one more thing out there.... since you know so much more on the policies then people who have been there done that, The U.S. doesn't do things like this solely for OUR freedom. It's for the freedom of all nations big or small.
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Lol The term youngster is a term of affection around here. sorry if that bothers you. As far as knowing more than the olders you apparently do not. The "war" was not started over him having WMD. It was simply due to two reasons. 1) He did not up hold to his end of the terms of search laid down by the U.N. ... not the U.S. 2) The general homicide of innocent people at an alarming rate by him and his. You do have the right to do w/e you want. By all means do it. Also just to throw one more thing out there.... since you know so much more on the policies then people who have been there done that, The U.S. doesn't do things like this solely for OUR freedom. It's for the freedom of all nations big or small.
Yea, thats the ignorant and arogant policity of the USA we all love. The only way to life is the American way..
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The term youngster might have been a term of affection this time but the term kids you and others used in other and in this thread were not a term of affection so please dont be hipocryt because i dont wish to start an argument about this stupid little things.
Flip, it's lovely your faith and believe on the people who rule your country.
To be honest I was ashamed when my country showed his support for your invasion as well as spain and england. Luckily the people in these countris are not as conformist so the leaders of these 3 countries are not the same( Thank god!).
Flip as I'm sure you know, because I do and I'm a kid, Iraq let UN do the search at first and they did and they found nothing. Then the UN asked to search again and they denied. The UN was trying to resolve the matter and thats why they asked for US not to invade (They didnt want US to invade Iraq as you are trying to make it look).
I'm trying to be the most correct as possible but you are showing some extremist positions that I don't agree with.
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How about the americans were to join the Kyoto protocol and save the world instead of trying to bring democracy to iraq.
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i agree to disagree
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First off, The US started the war. The UN was reluctant to, as they didn't really see that Iraq's violations of the UN sanctions were important enough to invade the country.
Second, although you saw death first-hand, from a logical point of view, most people found that the homicide wasn't that bad comparing to what could happen. Bush senior didn't invade Iraq because excrement would hit the fan, and the result unrest would be even much more troublesome. Many analysts agree that Saddam did a good job of keeping the region from exploding.
While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.
As you see, he was completely cognizant of what would happen if we entered. Now we have a problem on our hands that we will likely be unable to fix. The tension is due to long standing emotional feelings, and war can never improve feelings. It only worsens them. Even as the US invaded, Saddam saw internal unrest as the top threat (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/12/international/middleeast/12saddam.html?pagewanted=print).
Also, flip, no we don't. Read up on all the dictatorships that we have funded.
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OK Time Out....
You goys can continue posting your views in a civilized manor but please no personal flaming. ( It hasn't gotten there yet, I just want to nip it in the bud now)
Also, please remember that there are a lot of viewpoints out there and there are a lot of people that no matter what is said, it will not change their position on the subject. Going back and forth restating the same thing gets old.
This is going to be " Lets' all agree to disagree" threads.
Just please respect each other.
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yes and yes
i know all about the dictatorships we have funded. i.e. saddam. The statement was used as in the U.S. does not invade someone for the simple fact of keeping OUR freedom. In light of funding dictators it is to maybe keep someone stable in power who we hope will not go crazy with it i.e. saddam. I agree with bush Sr. not invading Iraq. But ... I also agree after what I personally saw that it was time to intervene. As for the searching of buildings and such for WMD's you are wrong. Sorry but you are. It was not a one time thing. It was a continuous check system. He failed to comply with certain things such as not barring the inspectors from entering certain facilities and what not. But hey ... I was just a lead analyst during the time. What do I know. I bow down to all the people who get their information from the newspapers and media.
P.S. Youngster is a general term for anyone maybe younger than some old man. But if you read up I didn't call you a youngster. I generalized. Then after generalizing I appoligized. Maybe you just have a problem with me who knows? who cares?
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Saddam wasn't unpredictable. And I personally don't care what you saw. So people die, many in gruesome ways. The world knew about these atrocities, but they also knew it was nothing compared to what would result if a 3rd power tried to take over the region. Saddam did what he did to keep the region in check. When you're working with policies, I wouldn't let your personal emotions get into it.
Second, how was I wrong? I didn't say that Saddam didn't violate UN's orders many times over the course of years, did I? I said that even if Saddam did, most nations did not perceive it as a sufficient threat. Frankly, not everyone really believed that Saddam had WMDs, and indeed this was true, as the Iraqi war has pointed out. If you look into the matter deeply, it is perfectly reasonable why he would buff that he had WMDs, and any good analyst would have considered that viewpoint.
Third, what is with you and the media? The media is obviously biased, but that is not to say that there are not real analysts putting out their real valid opinions. There are also varying levels of bias with different news outlets. NPR isn't that bad, you know. Regardless, what credentials do you have that you can verify to me that makes your opinion oh so more useful? Lead analyst? You could be pulling that out of your butt. And even if you are a lead analyst, there is nothing stopping you from being wrong because this isn't a black and white issue. You appear to be pretty biased anyway. All you have done is shown that Saddam was a bad person, not that the war was inherently justified. Nothing has come out of the Iraqi war. The governments we have tried to set up have been entirely worthless. The region does not look like it intends to settle down any time soon. Hatred towards America seems to have grown.
The only reasonable point brought up has been S8N's, saying that indeed we have had no attack. However, who is to say that that was because of the invasion, because terrorists can be harbored in other places beside Iraq. I suspect that our better border security may be the reason for the lack of attacks. It is not like they cannot try to attack right now, but since we have improved our border security, their chance for failure has increased significantly even if we have not patched up all the holes (meaning if they fail, a great negative PR wave will befall on them, and America will have won). But whatever, S8N's point is still up to debate. He could be right, he could be wrong.
Anyway, that's my 2c. The primary elections will be upon us soon, and we'll see what will happen then.
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1. fl1p - I assure you, you don't wont my memories
2. Maybe you should learn some history - as I said read Century of war by William Endghal
3. Where was glorious USA country when we had Srebrenica, Ovcara and other mass murder places? Oh, I remember, NATO + Russia were to busy on putting weapon embargo on us and helping Milosevic - true, Serbia is a bigger country which had 3rd largest military in Europe in the 90's - that means more weapon to be sold - Usa&Friends wanted war here for economic reasons, so you really think there is some greater reason for USA to be in Iraq? This is not a holoy war, a just war, this is simple what every war is. Fight for economic power. Don't you forget that.
How about the americans were to join the Kyoto protocol and save the world instead of trying to bring democracy to iraq.
Well said. But they wont ever sign that protocol. Would harm industry to much in meaning that if the protocol would be signed, big industry would have to invest to reduce the poison they put up in the atmosphere, God forbid. That's just non economic.
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True. I love how the administration claims that there is nothing wrong with USAs pollution. And then they block chinese cars, because they pollute the environment too much. But, the chinese cars create pollution already less than the american cars, and the chinese work to get the demands even lower.
Watch "The inconvienient truth" - quite good move. I understand its made by the opponent of the current president and reflects views of the 1 side, but the facts there are pretty impressive.
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Just to end this I will tell you to read up where I had posted earlier saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Does it really matter what anyone thinks? You can have your own views but they don't mean squat unless your willing to act on them and make a difference.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, no matter how wrong you are. (blaa, edgecrusher, sk89, eiii, etc)
You were warned - see ya in a week.
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One more and this thread goes bye-bye
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It should already be locked. We got people from other countries trying to wiggle their way into the way our country is run to make us seem worse then we actually are.
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It should already be locked. We got people from other countries trying to wiggle their way into the way our country is run to make us seem worse then we actually are.
That was not our point at all..
I wish you and darkness would give some of your arguments too instead of just saying "wow euros cant comment on my country!! i dont have nothing to say but they cant say anything either!!!!"
I think the discussion is over now and I have to say that it went very well in my opinion without any personal attacks besides the last 2 (but those are usuals.)
Youngster is a general term for anyone maybe younger than some old man. But if you read up I didn't call you a youngster. I generalized. Then after generalizing I appoligized. Maybe you just have a problem with me who knows? who cares?
No problem with you at all. I thought that if after my post you start talking about the 'youngsters' it would include me, my bad. No hard feelings.
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“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”
— Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826)
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I wish the president would get killed. The stupid donkey is so retarded. Lets put 5000000 troops in iraq when its not needed. GJ American Government. and they take seized drug money for wars? How pathetic. this system is gonna fall so hard one day. Im going To L!O!L
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Madman...have you actually read this thread?
Did you read Flips accounts in Iraq?
I can't even begin to say the things I would like to say to you due to a sure ban from these forums.
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Thanks for deleting my post. cigarettes
Looks like Darkness just got a friend to vacation with. See ya in a week.
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Lock plz!
Before Madman gets himself banned, at least.
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It should already be locked. We got people from other countries trying to wiggle their way into the way our country is run to make us seem worse then we actually are.
Well the thing is Spook that your country is wiggling it's way into every country in this world. And I presume that I know alot more of politics, history, geopolitics etc. than you since you haven't made any point regarding the subject, or given any arguments.
In the end, I felt need to comment on this issue to express my opinion, none of my facts weren't without solid argument, and leaders of your country are responsible for it's image. So don't try to act like a victim here. I know it's hard to say yes, we made a mistake. Especially if you read only newspapers or watch news on TV.
As for Darkness, I didn't expected anything more from him beside that post. That just confirms what I wrote before.
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Well the thing is Spook that your country is wiggling it's way into every country in this world.
That's not what he was saying at all. No need to go off about it. :P
Seriously, lock plz.
EDIT: Hey, let's get another point in while we're at it.
Did you read Flips accounts in Iraq?
There was no question that good would be done- after all, a not-so-wonderful dictator was being dethroned. However, it's silly to take a few individual counts where something good or just clearly took place and use it as justification for the entire war. Even if you're just assuming that similar events take place wherever our troops go, that's completely discounting a lot of really negative stuff that was (and is) the result of this war.
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Well maybe I misunderstood but he accused that we (Europeans) are wiggling our way in how their country is run and I responded that we would not comment on that issued if USA wasn't wiggling in how other countries are run. It wasn't my intent to go off, I can't get pissed that easaly. I know it may sounded like that, but it's hard to express colour of your voice over the inet. As I understood we were having clash of diferent opinions, feelings free.
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I was under the impression Spook though that people from outside the US were pretending to be standard idiotic pro-war Americans.
'I presume that I know a lot more of... than you' sounds pretty mean.
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Guys,
I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread.
For the most part, most of you have been very passionate about your beliefs and expressed them in a very constructive way.
Unfortunately we have a few bad apples that aren't doing anything to add to the overall content of this thread except to bash others and make jokes in a thread that is very serious to alot of us.