Digital Paint Discussion Board
Digital Paint Community => Clans, Matches, and Tournaments => PBCup => Topic started by: Dirty_Taco on January 26, 2006, 11:42:38 PM
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ksplat2? That's a 1-pather. You should do midnight2 instead. :)
I assume everglade is going to be the new (mostly) fixed up version?
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after looking over this map list, im actually gobsmacked.
Almost all the maps are very similar; all of them are very large, far too complex, and the biggest problem of all: very er33t centric.
to be honest im not exactly surprised given the organisers of this league, but I think this needs serious addressing as it may as well be renamed 'PBCup.com - Arrange to lose to er33t...more!'.
Castle1 is an exception however, because its in my opinion the theoretically best map for this league (lots of paths, lots of tricks and excellent for team strategies and game-plans, 2 flags for even more varied strategy). This presents a problem though as whoever meets er33t's squad in the 3rd week may as well just forfeit right then, though that probably can't be avoided.
pbcup_sassault is...interesting. I'm not personally a huge fan of the sassault series, but technically it seems ok though ive not had a great deal of playtesting on it yet. The only issue i have is with the lighting, its far too dark, and I can envision whoever meets DT on it is f***ed.
Also, Warhouse and Sphouse?? what the hell? they are awful maps. The only thing that would save you on a maps like those are extreme amounts of practice so you can map it all out in your head already, and frankly, id rather stab my eyes out with a fork than play more than 1 round on either of them.
crimethink. No offense DT, but this map is horrible. looks good, plays disgracefully. Also, its far too easy to get on top of the level, which sort of skims the rule about not using exploits (seeing as from these easy to reach places you can see through the level...).
I personally hate Midnight, but technically its sound, and has decent gameplay esp. for 4 vs 4 play, so i can abide this choice.
Individual maps aside, the sizes are just too big. A lot of them are blatantly designed for 8 on 8's etc... so you are simply weeding out the teams with an uneven balance of skil (ie expecting each player to be skilled enough to be responsible for each path (or whatever) forcing the map into a series of 1 vs 1's which, if you happen to lose the confrontation, creates a weakness in your teams strategy - encouraging simple camping the bases so as to back up your defence). I propose that there needs to be much more variance in map sizes (shazam22, ub_rooftop, encounter, etc...) which offer similar sort of play but change the mode of play significantly due to the more compactedness of the paths and flashpoints.
plus, 10 mins spread over such huge maps cant be that interesting. Brainstorm can be an example, how many rounds are you going to get out of that? say 1 player per team is left alive on both teams...zzzzzzZZzzz.
Perhaps you could put it to a general vote - players offer up suggestions, the best of these are voted for, then the final shortlist is decided on by the panel, or maybe an independent comittee?
I don't need a flamewar or anything, but I do feel strongly about this maplist - that its a mistake.
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
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Wow. Take the maplist and burn it, then bury the ashes far far away.
I could sit here for hours complaining about the maps, but i wont.
Actually....
Crimethink and summer?!?! What were you smoking when you picked these as good maps?! I dont know how these fit the criteria, theyre far to expansive, the gameplay is shocking, and no one will want to play them. Most of the maps on here are one which will empty a pub server within seconds. There are, in my opinion, only 2 decent maps on there: roundup and pball_shreds1.
Get rid of the rest, especially the over complicated Taco maps, which look great but play like s**t. I dont wanna judge but this seems like abit of shameless self promotion by Taco.
I think youve overlooked the fact that this league is for fun, let the players pick the maps. Dont treat us like idiots, we know which maps are fun, and we know which maps will suit 4vs4. I think er33ts determination to win this league has clouded their jedgement somewhat. This is a league for all dp clans, not just what suits er33t.
However, im not just here to criticise, im also going to put forward some suggestions. I think it would be best if you had 2 pools A and B. In pool A you have the bigger maps, and pool b you have some medium sized ones (some Rick suggested). Let the players vote for one map from each, once the maps have been played they leave the pool.
Im pretty much in agreement with everything Rick said, and i think it would be best for the er33t clan to avoid accusations of map fixing by allowing players to vote.
Sort it out.
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ok there are several problems concerning an agreed over maplist:
- many players will usually play small maps with a lot of encounters... these are the maps that keep public servers full, unlike the bigger maps where it's more about strategy. The point is, though, that small maps can be fun for 2on2 or 3on3, while bigger maps include a lot of strategy. Of course this means that the teams will actually have to practice together. Might be tough for some players.
- eR33t picked the maps... yes, for now. Just wait until the first season is over and criticize the admins (including me) after that. Mappools might be changed, revised or whatever... Also, if you are a good team, it shouldnt matter for you on what map you play. Be better, beat the others. Period. And it's not like the mappool has been publicated a week before you have to play, you will have plenty of time for looking at the maps, find your own strategy, and actually play them.
- Personally, I dont agree with all of the maps either, and I dont like all of them, but I see the point that is being made by the mapchoice: it forces teams to play as teams, and not as just 4 individuals.
- larger maps might, maybe, lead to boring matches. As Dag has mentioned, if there is a 1on1 left on brainstorm, it can be boring, but actually, that is up to the teams! If both teams camp, even pbcup can get boring ;) Really, it's up to the players to decide on their strategy, and I can say for my clan that we will not hide full rounds, as we want to see some action :)
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i dont think there is any question about practising the maplist, whatever incarnation gets decided upon. Im not going at accuse them of map fixing, because im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and the maps they have picked DO reflect the fairly reasonable criteria they have already laid out, but i don't however think its a good list. theres no way you can say 'fun maps' aren't worth anything league-quality play wise, because they are (though of course i dont mean ub_cliffs, that map makes me cry). ub_rooftop usually keeps people on servers, yet as far as i can see its way better suited to practised strategic 4 vs 4 play than say brainstorm or crimethink(bleugh).
you say its down to the teams not to make it boring and use bad gamesmanship, but think about who is entering? how many clans do you know that will resort to shady and lame tactics to win a HUGE map they have no chance of competing on open ground on? so say if that clan takes out the other, more worthy team by sheer better camping, how does that make for a good competition?
plus, why the hell should we wait till our fears are realised and the first season is poor to fix this? why not discuss it now and work something better out then we can all be happy a darn sight sooner?
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
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- many players will usually play small maps with a lot of encounters... these are the maps that keep public servers full, unlike the bigger maps where it's more about strategy.
- Also, if you are a good team, it shouldnt matter for you on what map you play. Be better, beat the others. Period.
- larger maps might, maybe, lead to boring matches. Really, it's up to the players to decide on their strategy, and I can say for my clan that we will not hide full rounds, as we want to see some action :)
Ok, I particularly want to highlight the second point. If er33t are a good team then why are they picking maps which give them an advantage? If it doesnt matter what maps we play then why cant we play fun driven ones, rather than boring expansive maps.
Strategy = Camp the flags, on every one of these maps, makes it boring for both teams, but its the only way lesser skilled players will be able to stand a chance.
I mean seriously, some of these maps are so so bad to play, i have to question what your motives are behind setting up this league; for other clans and fun? For the good of DP? Im seriously beginning to doubt that.
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guest, whoever you might be (too much fear to reveal yourself?), first of all, nobody forces you to play in the league. If a clan thinks they can participate and actually have fun, they will sign up, if not, they might not. The league is an offer to clans, not anything forcing them.
Also, if you think you will be camped on, I guess you will have to develop a strategy to overcome the campers, dont you think?
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ub_rooftop would probably be a good map. I don't think your point about clearing out public servers is very valid, though. Usually that's the sign of a map that offers good strategy. All the Joe Newbies who rack up points spraying the only entrance to the base get frustrated because that strategy no longer works and the skilled players are running circles around them capturing flags. They quickly become frustrated and quit the server. Teamwork and strategy aren't that common on public servers, so naturally maps that require them are not popular. Match and tournament environments are completely different, though.
That said, perhaps there should be fewer er33t-made maps in the list so there isn't as much bias. Currently half the maps are made by er33t members.
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guest, whoever you might be (too much fear to reveal yourself?), first of all, nobody forces you to play in the league. If a clan thinks they can participate and actually have fun, they will sign up, if not, they might not. The league is an offer to clans, not anything forcing them.
Also, if you think you will be camped on, I guess you will have to develop a strategy to overcome the campers, dont you think?
Surely youre trying to attract the maximum number of clans to participate? So this should be the greatest good for the greatest number, not the greatest good for er33t.
And i think camping will be the best strategy on these maps, as most of them have very narrow entrances to the flags, so there isnt much difference between these large ones and medium ones in terms of strategy. Only difference is it takes 10 minutes before you see anyone. Having smaller maps will encourage rushing and break up the monotony.
I think you should change this 'take-it-or-leave-it' attitude if you hope people to take this league seriously.
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im not worried about being camped on, its just a question of removing the likelyhood and improving the standard of play by developing and maturing the maplist so that everyone playing has a great time, and the most people possible can join in and have fun. This is why your comments on 'dont like it, dont play' sort of attitudes wind me up - why SHOULD some people be excluded just because someone elses clan is particularly adept at huge maps?
i have to agree with Jit about the server thing though, but only so far. Your theory is good, and Ive seen it to be true many times, but you cant forget that a map can just be crap, and no-one likes it but a few fetishists. Lets not confuse that with newbs not having the skill to become contenders on it.
I think anyone can see theres problems with the maplist, and thats cool because its tentative, not final, and we can discuss it. Im personally looking forward to seeing everglade's new version should be cool i hope. As it is, this whole thing feels biased to me, but i hope we can redress the imbalances so the whole community can play, not just those who happen to fancy the niche market currently on offer (and coincidentally have names beginning with E and ending in r33t...;) j/k).
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
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You're all idiots. Yeah, we rigged the maplist to win.
Are you joking? We all know we can penetrate you newbies weather or not we pick the map.
Why dont you guys name some maps that would be better for 4v4. I know you'd like this to be an indune only tourney, but come on, there's enough of that excrement in pub. How about some maps people don't play now?..
I dont like some of the maps either personally, but I dont have a problem playing them. They're all good maps.
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- many players will usually play small maps with a lot of encounters... these are the maps that keep public servers full, unlike the bigger maps where it's more about strategy.
- Also, if you are a good team, it shouldnt matter for you on what map you play. Be better, beat the others. Period.
- larger maps might, maybe, lead to boring matches. Really, it's up to the players to decide on their strategy, and I can say for my clan that we will not hide full rounds, as we want to see some action :)
Ok, I particularly want to highlight the second point. If er33t are a good team then why are they picking maps which give them an advantage? If it doesnt matter what maps we play then why cant we play fun driven ones, rather than boring expansive maps.
Strategy = Camp the flags, on every one of these maps, makes it boring for both teams, but its the only way lesser skilled players will be able to stand a chance.
I mean seriously, some of these maps are so so bad to play, i have to question what your motives are behind setting up this league; for other clans and fun? For the good of DP? Im seriously beginning to doubt that.
No. YOUR strategy is camp the flags. Please tell me, if most map are 'camp the flag and win' why does eR33t NEVER camp and ALWAYS win? We NEVER EVER use camping as a winning strategy. It's more like a losing strategy in my opinion. I always tell clans the reason they're losing is because they're sitting on flag like idiots.
PS - Name some better maps. Please. I want a good laugh.
I'd just like to add most of eR33t don't know most of these maps. I know I dont. The reason for doing these maps is it's more even of a game. Everyone's playing maps they dont practice and don't really have strategies for. If you're worried that these maps were picked so eR33t could win, believe me, it would be ALOT worse if you picked maps that are regularly played.
Stop complaining.
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Let's clear things up a bit here...What you guys must realize here is PBCup is not run by eR33t.
It's run by XBain with help from DT.
I'm in eR33t and had no opinion on what maps were to be used.
And I don't think Blits, Bob, or digi were asked either.
I think XBain & DT made thier best logical choices to comfotably handle a 4vs4 teamwork competition, not a 4vs4 sprayfest.
I don't like every map on the list either, but i'll play anything.
I'm sure some of you would have liked to see Blitz_tm on the list, but that's NOT the kind of event PBCup is trying to promote.
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I think the maps are pretty good, becides the fact that like half of them like jits said are made by ppl in er33t. I think you could take some out and maybe use them in next season or something. I might be a bit off when I say this but what about maps like arctic3, which is a pretty sizeable map and has more than 1 way to go, cfire also another map that isnt played that has numerous ways to go and it is a decent size for a 4v4, and hellsurvivors definatly should have gotten some consideration because it is a map that definatly requires some teamwork. My last suggestion is pforest, another good sized map that is based on teamwork.
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pforest and hells are on there..
arctic3 is an awful map.. hence why no one really played it when it came out
and as for eR33t making most the maps, believe me, we don't know them any better then you (other then DT. lol). All of the DT maps I have no clue where to go, just like most other people. I've played them for maybe 35 seconds each.
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Look at it this way... You can either lose on a small piece of excrement map, or you can lose on a good big map.
Oh yeah, also... It's a 4v4 league, not a 2v2.
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I had no influence on the maplist, and honestly -- don't like it all that much. A few more "shazam-like" maps would have been better, IMO.
Anyway, we'll live.
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Well said, however verbose. Big brother is watching...
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Yeah digi you are right, I must have just passed over them cause i knew the maps. And also I said that i might be off base on the arctic3 map
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Yeah digi you are right, I must have just passed over them cause i knew the maps. And also I said that i might be off base on the arctic3 map
=)
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wow.
Well ok, here we go. If my comments are 'very Ad Hominem', it seems rather hypocritical to begin with 'I would like to start by annihiliating RickDaglesses credibility'. The very fact you had to highlight the portion of your sizeable post worth reading frankly stuns me. Especially after I said I didn't need a flame war. I'm aware what I said was potentially inflammatory, but it is nonetheless true and everyone else bar you and digi were able to provide constructive input(despite how many oh so intelligent sounding disses to my clan, which have nothing to do with the purpose of this thread OR what I posted).
You're right, I DONT have as much practice on some of these maps as you. Fair enough. However, you accuse me and my clan (both of which's names you can't even spell; Dr Rick Dagless M.D, [-DarkP-], respectively) of a number of things which are basically untrue and have NOTHING to do with this discussion on map lists. For one, we used to frequent IRC and had our own channel set up by Xile - #darkp on irc.enterthegame.com. Furthermore, when we owned a server, its maplist was populated by a rather diverse selection of maps, 90% of which weren't currently on rotation on any existing server at that time. I guess you missed all that, huh. Also, I prefer to avoid people like you in this 'clan community' because lets face it, you're not very likeable people. I prefer to spend my time in the community having a laugh with pure and the lads in Memi, or talking to Aura, Rocker, Snipen, Demi, etc.. on vent where 'fun' was actually a thing and not something you force on someone because they are n00bs if you disagree. Our clan has about 50 matches under its belt; we've been playing for 2 years. Admittedly compared to a lot of others this isn't exactly ages, but 2 years is 2 years. You just simply make unfounded accusations and assumptions about me and [-DarkP-] for nothing but your own indignance about having your map list picked apart. I wasn't exactly kind to Jitspoes maps that feature, yet he didn't find it necessary to write a 1,581 word essay on how I personally was wrong. As you said, mine was the only post that had any argument behind the criticisms, yet you pay me no respect and only stand to personally attack me. One assumption you failed to make was that me and my clan aren't like er33t in any way, we play for FUN ONLY. That’s why Memi who balance fun with dedication may never beat you, but will always be a greater clan, in my opinion.
On the subject where you say 'everytime i've been in contact with this clan, mainly through pub, i have been harassed about my maps and my playing over and over again.', I have personally never done that to you. My clan mates say they only wind you up because of how you act to other players, but I’m afraid that has nothing to do with me, the pbcup maplist, or my opinion on it. Doesn’t help you had a bind that alluded to Reed and Sanchez being ’14 year old Germans’ either.
All anyone has to do is stand back from this thread and see how the land lies. I make risky, but honest opinions made clear, you and your clan form up against me to verbally abuse me and 'annihilate my credibility'. All this is just indicative of the attitudes that govern DP these days. Apparently no-one can disagree with you because you and er33t are the sole bastions of skill and sportsmanship in the game, any dissenters need to be picked apart and basically called n00bs as if they are disagreeing with you then they are OBVIOUSLY morons who know nothing, when they offer constructive criticism. The best part is, you have no idea what you are talking about when you talk about me and [-DarkP-]. None at all.
At the dawn of our DP careers, maps like pb_shreds1 and 2 were played a lot, we aren’t afraid of playing large maps, but I just don’t feel that the maplist shown is the most prudent selection. The paragraph that begins ‘Crimethink’ just screams one thing to me: ‘I made this map, my team is sh*t hot on it, you lot have NO chance. But I’m trying really hard to justify it like you would have a chance, so there’.
This began as feedback on the first draft maplist, but changed into a vitriolic quest against me by Dirty Taco. Blitz's apathetic comment above 'Anyway, we'll live.' is saddening because it just makes me think that this community will never change. All that this does in grind into people the submission as when they say anything, this happens. It’s apparent you can’t discuss this matter without taking it personally (probably on account of the fact that’s a 2:1 chance that picking a map at random to take out would be one of yours) so I’d prefer it if you’d keep the slurs against me and [-DarkP-] to a minimum as it has nothing to do with this tourney and this maplist.
I think this tourney is a great idea, I thought it could bring about something new and special to the community, but all I can see is it becoming another system of perpetuating the stagnation. All I can say is that I hope XBain and whoever else is on the ‘administration’ can understand what people are telling them about this and we can all participate in something great. It really wouldn’t hurt to listen, for once – even members of er33t have said they don’t agree with some of the maps.
Also, to everyone else who seems to insinuate I am suggesting playing maps like Indune and Blitz, this couldn’t be more wrong. Oddjob’s suggestion of Cfire intrigued me, after spending some time properly focusing on the map I’d say I’d much rather see it on the list than some of the existing ones. There are some good strategies that emerge from it, I think.
Oh and Digi, if you havent anything constructive to say, just don't bother at all.
Anyway, I’m done.
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
P.S so much for ‘ Let's work on some better posts this year.’ Huh, jit.
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Haha, how the hell has my name got brought into this. First off, I wouldn't say I harrassed you. Whenever I've seen you in publics, which isn't much, all you seem to do is say stuff like "ROFL" and "LMAO" etc etc over and over. Everytime you get shot. Now, of course we all know just how supreme you are from everybody else, but all I did was do the same back. I have never claimed DarkP are the "European eR33t", I think that was Reed though? ;) Neither have I really claimed your maps suck. All I've said is I don't particularly enjoy playing them, and that it doesn't seem many other people do (as they leave the server when they come on). So, "i have been harassed about my maps and my playing over and over again", naaah. I was just spoofing you to be honest, spamming repetitive nonsense. Although I'm sure Reed would take blame for half of that stuff you claimed I said. And I dont think DarkP entering PBCup would "settle our issues on the field". I thought the issue was the maplist to begin with? ??? Ya know, Dagless given feedback like you asked? Meh
And oh yea, Gohans a nob. He's just annoyed that he's homosexual.
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This sub-forum is about PBCup, not eR33t. DirtyTaco just happens to be in my clan, and I don't have much influence on the decion making process with PBCup. If you want to talk about eR33t, you can talk to me.. not one of my members who's hasn't been with us for all that long in the first place. Let's at least attempt to keep these two ideas seperated, and work together constructively.
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Hahahahaha.
Lets Get Things Straight. It Wasnt Sanchez Who Started Calling Your Maps excrement, It Was Me. We Were On A Pub Server When The Map Summer.bsp Came On, I Said 'Change This Piece Of S*it Map'. I Think You Said Something Along The Lines Of 'You Newbie, You Dont Know Anything About Maps.'
I Maintained That Your Maps Are Sh*t, Which They Are. I Think The Lack Of Match Play And Pub Play Summer And Crimethink See Pretty Much Proves This. But Im Not Going To Decimate Your Maps, I Think All The Peoples Feedback In This Post Have Said What Needs To Be Said.
We Harass You Because Youre An Arrogant C*nt And We Know It F*cks You Off. We Killed You Constantly, As Did Other People, Only To Receive A LMFAO or ROFL!!!!! So We Began To Do The Same, Act Like A C*nt, Get Treated Like One. Don’t Think Were Singling You Out Though, We Gave Fyre And BoB The Same Treatment.
As for DarkP Being The er33t Of Europe This Was Started By Pureblood (In A Post I Think) Saying DarkP Would Beat er33t On A European Server. At No Point Have We Ever Claimed We Could Beat You, Or Attempted To Match You.
And I Still Cant Believe How Big Headed You Are, Just Because Youve Played More Matches Than Us, Or Played For Longer, Doesn’t Make You Any Better Qualified To Judge The Maps Which Should Be Played, And It Doesnt Mean You Should Shun Our Criticism Without Consideration. Snipen And Casso Have Played Longer Than You (To My Knowledge) AND They Own A Series Of Successful Servers, Does That Make Them Better Qualified Than You?
I Think You Ought To Consider Taking Yourself Off The pbcup ‘Administration’ Because You Clearly Have Some Personal Issues Which Will No Doubt Impair Your Judgement. I Don’t Think Youre A Good Representative For The League, Nor The Game In General.
As For Matching You, That Wont Prove Anything, Who Ever Wins, It Wont Change The Fact That Youre A C*nt, And It Wont Stop Me Slamming Your Maps. In Fact It Will Probably Only Fuel Your Arrogance.
Just Want To Point Out That Rick Was Being Purely Objective In His Posts, And Did Even Suggest Some Maps, It Was You Who Began The Personal Attack On Him And Our Clan.
Sorry To Take It Off Topic Again, But Things Had To Be Said, Maybe Ill Open Up A ‘Rant At Taco’ Thread.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!1111111one.
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Oh And BTW If You Believe Everything Gohan Says Youre More Of An Idiot Than I Thought.
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We Harass You Because Youre An Arrogant C*nt And We Know It F*cks You Off. We Killed You Constantly, As Did Other People, Only To Receive A LMFAO or ROFL!!!!! So We Began To Do The Same, Act Like A C*nt, Get Treated Like One. Don’t Think Were Singling You Out Though, We Gave Fyre And BoB The Same Treatment.
I don't recall ever even speaking to you during the time I was in eR33t. So please clarify what you meant by that exactly. As for DirtyTaco being a girl thingy, I don't understand how you come to that conclusion at all. If DirtyTaco was, in fact, a "girl thingy" to you, you must've done something to provoke it. Dt isn't a jerk to people, which leads me to believe that you brought it upon yourself. Not all of dt's map are FANTASTIC, but they are all well thought-out with a high level of teamplay intended to be used. Telling him his map is garbage when he's there is just disrespectful. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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-well something about crimethink: You have made this map, DT. You know all the hints of the map, the strategic points and paths and the trick jumps. You dont even have to practice those maps with your clan. You just could tell them the best strategic paths (with trickjumps, etc.) for each player/position and thats it. Other clans would have to study those maps very long time and even after this i dont think they could figure out ALL those strategics paths and "camp-points" like you do.
-About the written above: This COULD be also the matter at one or more of the other maps of the pbcup-maplist since "most of them are by eR33t members" (and it DOESNT MATTER if you´ve made them before your time with eR33t because wether or not you still can help them out on your maps and you would, i hope ;) )
-DIRECT map Criticism: There shouldnt be brainstorm on the maplist because the "biggest maps" dont Always have the greatest game-play. I think its too big. There better should be a "Middle"-sized map. (middle sized like ub_rooftop per example; havent tested ub_abbey yet but i think its worth a look at it although its a beta-version)
PS: NOT meant as a flame. Just my opinion so far.
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Aside from this little war that seems to have sprung up, Playah, i agree ENTIRELY with what you just said. Thats it entirely.
DT, again i'll state, I personally have never said anything like that to you or harrassed you on a server, so leave that out please. And dont say DarkP either, as Im certain Wonton or Liz hasn't said anything either. Yeah you have played more matches than us, but It's not likely that we'll ever want to match you because why give you the pleasure? If you beat us on the field that wouldn't make your maplist any better, or you win any arguments because we never said we were better, so why fuel your ego?
Oh and on Gohan, if you even knew what that implied about you, there's no way you would have said that as if it was something to brag about. One conversation with Ian (Gohan) went something like this: 'Ian, wtf why did you tell er33t and everyone we hack?' 'because you called me G.ay' 'but we don't hack, and you even said yourself you ARE ACTUALLY G.ay' 'yeah but you were making fun of me'. You say some of your assumptions were wrong about my clan, but im pretty sure that should read 'the overwhelming majority' as im pretty sure you have no hard facts to reinforce your 'positive' claim that we've never matched on those maps.
So you insult my literacy skills again this time, despite the fact you seem to be experiencing a complete logical disconnect from what you are saying in that paragraph. You say er33t never/rarely played crimethink? but they've go the map maker in their clan, how is that possibly fair. You even said yourself you showed digi the tricks and jumps. How is that fair on any other competing team? you going to show them as well? As you say, almost no-one has the experience of you (me apparently having 'less than a quarter') so why not just lock the thread, finalise the maplist, tell everyone to cope with it, like always happens.
P!nk, i think you ought to READ DT's essay before you post again. 'You then took this offensively and defended your clan, while making every effort to say a rude comment or two. Whereas at least DT remains somewhat neutral, that much is in his favor.'. wow. I get accused of that, with tacos post right infront of you. Or is it because Taco is Taco, and Im a european newb? I do have to wonder.
About suggestions to the maplist, Me and Reed have been sifting though as many maps as possible and I'm going to have to concede that a LOT of maps aren't suitable to strategic 4 vs 4 play like you want. I'd like to test cfire more because I think it has potential, but the map I think (probably contraversially) should feature is Shazam22. It generally features a fair bit of spray across the bridge, but so does Midnight. I don't think its regularly-played-on-pubs status should count against it either. Given the timeframe of the matches, I think it would provide a fair bit of drama and fun to the match, Plus a well practised clan would be able to defeat the dodgy tactics that some of the maps features suggest (mainly camping ones). You've already dismissed this map in your first post, but I think you've missed the point that it goes for Midnight just as much, yet that makes it in. I've already said that I'd like to see ub_rooftop feature, also.
*edit* I've since looked at ub_abbey (recommended by Playah) and think it would be perfect for the maplist. It has a few problems shown by jit in the beta thread, but I honestly think this map has the most promise of any I've seen so far.
And no, the roughly 3 minutes you spent justifying your maps wasn't wasted, the 17 minutes you spent attacking me was.
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
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One useless post from you is enough, please stop now.
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Pink, I Was Talking About Provoking DT On Pub Servers. Read ALL The Posts Carefully Before You Post Please. If You Read The Posts Dagless Says Nothing Insulting Or Personal About Taco Until Taco Decides To 'Annihilate His Credibility'. He Puts Forward A Fair Argument Which 90% Of Respondants Agree With.
I Suggest You Dont Bother Posting Again Until You Understand The Situation Fully. Dont Pass Judgement When You Havnt Read The Posts Fully. Rick Didnt Come On Here To Provoke Taco, Just To Criticise The Maplist.
Perhaps You Should Think About Editing Your Post.
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P!nk you obviously HAVEN't read the thread because it really is quite simple. I gave feedback, DT replies with abuse thinly veiled with justifications for his maps, this escalates. You obviously also can't read the part where I said I had nothing to do with abuse of DT on servers or otherwise (than this thread, which has nothing to do with my opinions of him in general, just of his maps and this map list). The only one perpetuating this flaming now is you, as I had made some suggestions in my post above, and you - against your own advice - just post crap like that, with no contribution to discussion on making a better maplist. gj. All I can see is DT is goign to be naturally protective of his own creations and decisions and reacted predictably, you are about as objective in your opinions as DT himself.
'What I've been trying to draw to your attention is that no matter how much you argue, it's not going to have an effect, neither will drawing your clan members into it.'
That makes me laugh, because it just shows how little you comprehend what was written. DT brought up DarkP, Reed and Sanchez. DT started the personal stuff with 'I would like to start by annihiliating RickDaglesses credibility'.
Oh and insulting Reed's typing...classy.
You also seem to miss the point about DT being able to tutor his friends on the map. That just isn't fair. Its like doing an exam at university, and the author of the exam paper letting his favourite students see the questions before the class takes it.
im going to make this really simple for you to read, P!nk, because you seem to be unable to glean any meaning from any posts so far: I, Dr Rick Dagless M.D, have NO personal vendetta against Dirty Taco. Reed and Sanchez ARE NOT me. Nor are they the whole of [-DarkP-]. They are entitled to their opinions and comments as much as anyone and it has nothing to do with me, however much i might agree with them at times.
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
P.S You're most recent post makes a good point, put it to a Poll or something, because this is getting beyond a joke in terms of being off-topic. I go back and read my first post and just smile at how amazingly poorly some people take critisism that isnt even that bad.
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Not to be rude, Reed, but your posts are very hard to read and understand in the manner you have gone about writing them. They flip from one topic to the next. Perhaps you should make a new thread with a voting feature and leave this thread alone, it would help others out if they want to post their opinion on the maps but are afraid of getting in the flame. This is my last post, you're doing exactly what my friends have predicted, sad yet true, every argument you make is having no effect.
I don't edit posts unless it's for a good reason, if this is directed at DT, why don't you go to him and do it privately if you're intentions are what you say.
Im Not Arguing With Anyone, lol. Obviously DT Is Your Friend, And I Expect You To Be Bias In your Opinions. The Truth Is You Made An Assumption Based On Sketchy Information. You Said We Came On Here To Provoke Taco And Called Us Sad. We DID NOT Do That, I Only Got Involved When Taco Bad Mouthed Our Clan For No Reason.
You Can Call Us Sad All You Want, But You Have No Grounds To Do So, And Again, You Havnt Fully Understood My Post, If Its Hard To Read Then Im Sorry, But Please Dont Comment On It When You Dont Understand.
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Well, however the maps are "good" or "bad", you have to play them if you want to paly on pbcup.
BUT: Dirtytaco think its important to say that its not er33´ts cup...so i ask u:Why has every er33tmember +v (voice) on #pbcup? Yes because they are in er33t...
So if you wanna do stop those things, why are u making people fell like er33t has the rights to get +v in this channel and the others dont...
Im very thankful to everyone who has helped to make this possible ( espacially xbain and for his big support)
But if you continue like that u better should register www.er33tcup.com
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THeN WHY DONT YOU VOICE OP ME DIRTYTACO!?!!!?!?1?!!?!?!
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Look for my off topic post. Bain this is why I gave you my post, which I am still waiting for a repsonce.
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I think you're suggestion on some sort of tuition/ hints and tips system is a good one and certainly goes some way to a good will gesture for those who feel this is far too biased. Im glad you're taking on board shazam22 as an alternative, but I don't know about taking Midnight off for ub_rooftop. I think both those maps should go in, if you feel you can supplant one of the other contested maps with rooftop then great, as I personally think midnight is an important fixture on the maplist as it is.
anyway, im glad we've reached some level of amicability in this thread, lets try and keep it this way (reed and sanch included), thanks.
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
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You guys are taking too long to argue. Just get the "intercourse you's" out of your systems and be done with it. Stop the accusations and just say "take this map out and this map in" and a brief reason. I'm sure that'll make things go much smoother.
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just one thing: Those trickjumps etc. you should all tell to the others till lately the first quarter of the season because if you did that later, there still would be the advantage of your clan.
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I'd do rooftop in place of ksplat2.
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Just thought of another good 4v4 map: routez. As the name implies, it has a lot of paths that can be taken, providing a huge array of strategies. Also, the jail breaks provide another layer onto the gameplay and teamwork. I think it would be a perfect match for what you're trying to achieve in this maplist.
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two words... PRO PAINT. i mean cmon its the most balanced map out on the market. both sides exactly the same and with more than one way to go.
Anyone who has played Pro Paint would agree with me!
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Go ahead and do your post, loial21. I'm not really sure how it matters. I've been too busy to bother myself over the whole maplist thing. It was drafted, revised, revised, revised, etc. months ago. I would hate to put DirtyTaco, Pureblood and myself through the lengthy process of detailing exactly why every pair of maps was chosen (when they were chosen and in which order they were chosen) just so that a couple players who are still disagreeing with the selections can base new arguments on.
A couple goals that I had in mind while creating PBCup was to push the competitive pball2 scene in a new direction.
I will be the first to admit that there exist similarities between PBCup's direction and the existing state of eR33t. I spent 4 years pushing eR33t away from the 3v3 arctic/crates/arenaball gameplay trend that has been strong among clans for the last 6 years. eR33t has found their home on a couple maps, most notably castle1 and encounter.
Now with the launch of PBCup (some 2-3 years after starting it) I would like to give pball2 the push it needs to become a strategic team-oriented game.
Due to commitments I've made with regards to the PBCup launch, I've stepped down as a leader of eR33t. I will not be participating with eR33t in any of its PBCup matches, nor will I be providing eR33t with any tips/tricks/tactics/strategy that wouldn't be available otherwise.
Most people don't seem to give themselves a chance in PBCup against eR33t simply due to size of some of the selected maps. I would like to point out some weaknesses that eR33t is carrying into pre-season of PBCup:
- 5 player roster with little intentions on recruiting a player (makes it hard to practice 4v4 strategies internally, any practice would be exposing strategy to other clans during scrims)
- Very inexperienced using Ventrilo in matches. (Very bad at it as well)
- No formal strategy for either pre-season maps: mirrorr/kfields
- No formal practice on mirrorr/kfields
- BoB's ping is very unstable (usually 180-200 on PBCup servers)
I've already noticed a couple clans taking to the servers and practicing a few of the maps on the maplist and I think we some well-thought strategies and careful execution I wouldn't be surprised if a couple rounds get stolen from eR33t unless eR33t fixes some of their issues fast.
eR33t is not alone in terms of lack of preparation though. I'd strongly advise any clans that haven't began any preparation to get at least 2 hours together this week to really go over their strategy in-server for the pre-season round.
The pre-season round isn't going to be worth points in the final season standing, it's main intention is to allow clans get an idea of the structure and timing of matches so that they can make a few adjustments before their results make it to the scoreboard.
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Thanks. I am not trying to undue the committee's hard work. I will post it later as I am not at work. My main hope is to get more clans involved. This can be achieved by allowing an open maplist so that each clan has a choice on what map best suits them, nothing more implied or intended. I see this is not the direction your going, hopefully you can get what your seeking and be successful. One last thing Bain. Why cant BOB step down in your place *looks around and whispers...."he sucks" :)
Thanks,
-L
*edit orignal post is on its way.