Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => General Development => Topic started by: y00tz on June 02, 2007, 04:14:04 PM
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The other thread is simply for releasing material, and this is where all the discussion will be.
I'm looking for input on the community texture pack. If you'd like, feel free to tell me what you think about the things on the list. (Post as often as you want, it's Other Stuff & I'll update the list a lot)
1. Nomenclature
2. What kind of textures would you like, and conversely, what do dislike?
3. Is there any textures you NEED?
For the nomenclature I was thinking about this:
MATERIAL_COLOR_SPECIFIC.
So..
metal_red_rusted
wood_blue_planks
light_yellow_fluorescent
I'm still undecided..
Thanks for the feedback,
y00tz
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Currently the first letter of the color is used, followed by the texture type: r_metal, r_wood, etc. so that textures for a particular team are grouped together. Don't know that it really makes much of a difference, though. You will want to avoid long texture names if possible, as there are a lot of limitations.
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You will want to avoid long texture names if possible, as there are a lot of limitations.
Thanks, noted.
I considered using the current naming system, but for duplicates, I'd have to increment, so if you had r_metal, and I made r_metal2, there could be a chance that in the future you'll create another red metal, and it would replace mine, or mine would replace it.
I may do ctp_FIRST LETTER OF COLOR_MATERIAL_INCREMENT.. which is the current one, with CTP in front.
*edit wow you were 20 seconds away from replying to my post exactly 48 hours later.
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23 seconds.
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Don't put the textures in "pball" and you'll be OK. You could have something like textures/ctp/r_metal1 and it wouldn't conflict with textures/pball/r_metal1.
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How about having the same types of textures(ie MATERIAL_SPECIFIC), but different colors in pak files?
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I think I like it.
When we get closer to packaging and renaming, I'll PM you Cobo.
This is a dumb question, but in BSP my textures are all black and white. I assume I have to load a pallete in Wally, but I don't know. How can I fix that?
Found it in 'creating custom textures'
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If you wanted, I can give you some webspace for them to be uploaded, and have a .zip/.tarball created so you don't have to repackage it every day.
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If you wanted, I can give you some webspace for them to be uploaded, and have a .zip/.tarball created so you don't have to repackage it every day.
Thanks, I'll PM you when we get closer to the release.
Here is my current plan for the CTP.
I plan on releasing CTP 0.8 very soon. This is a pre-release of CTP 1.0, and CTP 1.0 will be backwards compatible with CTP 0.8.
CTP 1.0 is basically going to be resizing, bugs, and a few more textures.
My plan for CTP 0.8 is to simultaneously release:
-4-5 new maps I have created. (Mostly DM, TDM, and CTF)
-4-5 existing maps with the textures replaced with the new CTP textures (assuming I get permission in time)
-The CTP end-user files.
-The CTP 0.8 MDK (will work with CTP 1.0)
Once the bugs (repeating anomalies, seams, etc.) are worked out, I'll add a few more textures to the package and release the CTP 1.0 package, along with the CTP 1.0 MDK.
Here is my plan for naming maps.
Maps using the CTP 0.8 or 1.0 will have ctp1_ in front of the map name.
(e.g. ctp1_newmap.bsp)
Pros:
+ Players will know what CTP they need in the likely event we release an update
+ Existing maps ported to the CTP textures merely need to add ctp1_(filename) and will not overwrite the previous copy
+ People can easily identify CTP maps before they download them.
Cons:
- If some mappers do not conform, it will be very confusing.
thoughts?
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Well first off you'll have one map made just using CTP textures by the end of the coming week as long as my computer gets back up soon. 2nd I like the basic layout you've got down. 3rd please PM the link of those textures and even if my computer isn't back up I'll do it on this computer.
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Sounds good so far. Just one thing, what does MDK stand for? I don't feel like Googling it right now. :P
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Map development kit? I dont know :P
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Map development kit? I dont know :P
You got it.
Apocalypse, I'll give you the files the same time as everyone else so that you can get your map included with the 1.0 release. :D
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Alright thanks y00tz how long till it comes out since I've now seen this
Once its 56k I think Termin8or.
Haha, the 56k thing is a warning to the guys with dial-up. I used to have a 14.4 yeaaaaaars ago and I feel for those guys.
I'll probably put a release out soon, but I got a new job which means less time working on them, but the amount of beautiful textures I have available for me (it's at a hospital) are endless.
Here's a quicky from my cliff work as of late.
*edit - not my rock/ground texture, I got it from this site somewhere - and it's not going in the CTP.
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Map development kit? I dont know :P
Oh. Thanks.
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Don't know if this was asked before, or if it's even possible to be answered. When will the CTP be released, and what will be included? Is it just like brand new custom textures, or high-res versions of "old" textures as well?
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Don't know if this was asked before, or if it's even possible to be answered. When will the CTP be released, and what will be included? Is it just like brand new custom textures, or high-res versions of "old" textures as well?
Good questions.
The first release of the CTP is actually coming very soon. Unfortunately I'm leaving to Costa Rica for 10 days with the girlfriend, but I'll try to have a release before then, and if not, expect one the first week I'm back.
For the contents... I'm packing together brand new textures to be used in game. All of the textures are original and come from source images provided by users on this forum. Out of respect, I won't be touching any of Jitspoe's textures, but some of mine are similar and may be considered a high-resolution port. (e.g. bricks are pretty similar)
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So they are NEW, and users must replace their old ones with them to see them ingame, or what?
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So they are NEW, and users must replace their old ones with them to see them ingame, or what?
No, these are a completely new pack that is used WITH the old ones. It's just like, more textures. It's to give mappers the ability to create things they couldn't before.
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But they won't be used with any old map, right?
You have to replace old textures to make maps (like castle1) look better...
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But they won't be used on any old maps, right?
Correct, unless the author goes through and puts the new textures in.
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But they won't be used on any old maps, right?
Correct, unless the author goes through and puts the new textures in.
I extremely doubt most mappers will do that some might though if the map is quite recent.
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So you NEED to replace your old texutes with the new ones. ;)
Instead of adding the textures as "new" you should make them the hr versions of resembling original textures. This will make it much easier for each map makers and users.
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I don't think you guys understand.
Right now we have x amount of textures in the pball folder.
My goal is to create the another folder, filled with different types of textures we don't have, large exterior bricks, more realistic cliffs, realistic grass, sidewalk concrete, etc. Mappers can take advantage of these textures by using in their maps in places where the regular textures just don't do the job.
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Yeah, I know what you mean, but this will only (not sure if it will even work) affect any new maps, not the current one's that used to be played everytime.
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Yeah, I know what you mean, but this will only (not sure if it will even work) affect any new maps, not the current one's that used to be played everytime.
Gimmie the source and I'll port them. :)
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Yeah, I know what you mean, but this will only (not sure if it will even work) affect any new maps, not the current one's that used to be played everytime.
Bitmate if there are new maps that have better texturing it may help more to be finished and played more.
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But imagine playing on pbcup_renoir or capathian with those uber cool new textures ;)
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Guess your right why don't you give S8N and DT a call then.
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both DT maps ???
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No DT made Renoir redone and S8N made original DT made Carpathian.
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Thanks for letting me know :/
so if there is something to change in Pbcup_renoir DT would the one to change it.
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I just mentioned 2 of the better maps out there. You could list like 20 maps that would look much better with those custom textures.
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I just mentioned 2 of the better maps out there. You could list like 20 maps that would look much better with those custom textures.
Ooohhh can I can I :D
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Unfortunately I'm leaving to Costa Rica for 10 days with the girlfriend
That's unfortunate? Sounds cool to me. But then again, I haven't met your girlfriend. ;)
bitmate: A lot of the textures y00tz is working on are completely new and aren't similar to any of the textures used on existing maps. Some of the basic grass, dirt, stone, etc. textures may be better suited as high-res versions of existing textures, though. I really need to get some kind of organized repository for high-res textures to make community development easier.
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Unfortunately for us i guess...:(
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Cool. I really disagree with the ctp1_ prefix, as this should totally be included in the next release and everyone should get it now anyway. :P
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The next release is backwards compatible with this release. So maps made with this release will be ctp1_*. However, ctp2 will be ctp1 + even more textures, therefore you'll name the maps ctp2_* so that players know they need to update their ctp if they want to play.
Why do you disagree with it?
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I didnt really liked the idea either, if you dont have the textures, then you simply dont see them.
Also, the maps in the map list arent going to look pretty :P
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Why not just release a ctp2 folder for the next release? That way, instead of having the prefixes, people might just see that they're trying to download ctp2/whatever.jpg, and will know that they need the next pack.
Anyway, what's the point of releasing the same textures twice? >_>
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Anyway, what's the point of releasing the same textures twice? >_>
There isn't one, why would anyone do that?
the ctp2 = ctp1 ADDON.
there will be a ctp2 folder, with only ctp2 textures, that goes right next to your ctp1 folder with all the ctp1 textures.
Anyone who has the ctp2 could play all ctp1 textures IF they have ctp1, which wil be bundled with ctp2 for those who don't have it.
The ctp*_ prefix is there for 2 very good reason.
1. Mappers can re-release existing maps with each new ctp if they'd like, without ever risking over-writing previous maps.
2. Players will know immediately before they even join a game, whether or not the map needs the ctp, and if so, what version.
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1. Mappers can re-release existing maps with each new ctp if they'd like, without ever risking over-writing previous maps.
2. Players will know immediately before they even join a game, whether or not the map needs the ctp, and if so, what version.
1. Come on, how many times have you seen someone re-release a map to change the textures? Only way that would happen is if its in a beta state, and in that case, the maker would just change the textures for the next beta release.
2. When a person joins a server that needs ctp, it will either download them from the server, or tell them that he doesnt have them and he will see the map with no textures. Eventually, he'll find out about the ctp.
And what would happen if a map uses both 1 and 2?
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Whatever man, you have your techniques, I have mine. Mine are perfectly valid, so just leave them be.
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:-\ I'm just trying to help...
I mean, I like your idea about having a system to let people know that the map uses ctp* but I guess I wouldnt like to see a lot of maps have a ctp prefix on the map list, or having to figure out the name of the name whenever I wanted to play it through the console.
\o \o \o \o \o
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You could just put the ctp as a suffix. Using y00tz'a example something like this: ponies_ctp1.
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The thing is, your techniques will affect a pretty good number of maps. Anyway, you're going to have to take into consideration that a good number of mappers (maybe all of them) won't want to dirty up their map names with the ctp.
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You could just put the ctp as a suffix. Using y00tz'a example something like this: ponies_ctp1.
It thought about that, but I'm stubborn like that :P
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The thing is, your techniques will affect a pretty good number of maps. Anyway, you're going to have to take into consideration that a good number of mappers (maybe all of them) won't want to dirty up their map names with the ctp.
Too be perfectly frank, in this game it won't be up to the mappers either way. If there's admins who don't want the ctp1_ muck, they'll take it off, and there's good admins who'll add it to maps that need the prefix. Too be honest, the ctp1_ prefix is a safety next, but in reality if the name is changed, then people will see that ctp1/lol.jpg is missing..
A person could use a suffix too, it doesn't matter. I AM trying to standardize it NOW so that we don't have to worry about this later.
Just to let everyone know before more criticism comes my way...
The plan for 1.0 is to use an installer so all the installation problem will be fixed. And 2.0 will include an installer that will check for /ctp1/ and if it's not found, it will copy it. I wonder if there's a way with NSIS to check to see if the files have been modified and to change them back if they have...
For 2.0, think of it as 'a stand-alone expansion-pack' in a sense.
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I wonder if there's a way with NSIS to check to see if the files have been modified and to change them back if they have...
Not sure if NSIS can do md5 checks, but that would probably be the way to do that. It would be a tedious task to get the md5 of every file and add it to the script tho.
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It would be a tedious task to get the md5 of every file and add it to the script tho.
It would. It's no big deal. Besides, in reality, a number of tweaks will be made to ctp1 over time, that ctp2 should just install ctp1 AND ctp2.
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It's probably a bad idea to tweak textures once you've released them, especially if it's something people would align stuff with. Also, it's poor form.
The thing is, your techniques will affect a pretty good number of maps. Anyway, you're going to have to take into consideration that a good number of mappers (maybe all of them) won't want to dirty up their map names with the ctp.
Too be perfectly frank, in this game it won't be up to the mappers either way. If there's admins who don't want the ctp1_ muck, they'll take it off, and there's good admins who'll add it to maps that need the prefix. Too be honest, the ctp1_ prefix is a safety next, but in reality if the name is changed, then people will see that ctp1/lol.jpg is missing..
A person could use a suffix too, it doesn't matter. I AM trying to standardize it NOW so that we don't have to worry about this later.
Just to let everyone know before more criticism comes my way...
The plan for 1.0 is to use an installer so all the installation problem will be fixed. And 2.0 will include an installer that will check for /ctp1/ and if it's not found, it will copy it. I wonder if there's a way with NSIS to check to see if the files have been modified and to change them back if they have...
For 2.0, think of it as 'a stand-alone expansion-pack' in a sense.
Modifying map names is a really bad idea. I don't think any good admin would do that.
Also, the 'standardization' you're striving for kinda assumes that only your texture pack will ever exist. I certainly wouldn't want a map name like ctp4_hr4_omgwtf_mapname, if/when mapping/texture packs pick up.
And as I've said before, there's no real reason for the prefix. If they're missing the textures, they'll download them. Maybe they'll even look on the forums to see if anything has happened that would cause them to lose so many textures. Then, they'd probably see it, and download it.
Also, I don't want ctp in mah map names. :|
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It's probably a bad idea to tweak textures once you've released them, especially if it's something people would align stuff with. Also, it's poor form.
Too bad. If I can scale grass textures better, or clean up a repeating anomaly, I'll do it.
Also, I don't want ctp in mah map names. :|
Cool.
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Grass is okay. I don't think much could be aligned to grass. But, some of the more orderly metals or any of the brick textures shouldn't be majorly changed.
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Grass is okay. I don't think much could be aligned to grass. But, some of the more orderly metals or any of the brick textures shouldn't be majorly changed.
Umm, yeah I realize this....
And really, I find it quite funny, before I released this, I had a discussion thread for the release planning, that way people like Cobo and Eiii would post there about how bad my system is, before I released it. Yet, Eiii chose only to make one pointless, off-topic, 2-digit post. http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=6746.msg74904#msg74904.
If you guys had actually cared about this project at all, you would have offered to help, submitted images, or at the very least, supplied constructive criticism during the planning part. Only now do you feel the need to criticize.
Thanks
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I did make a constructive post in there to help your 'bad system.'
I stopped reading after the seventh post or so tho, was the naming of maps ever discussed there?
I'm not against you, y00tz.
You seem to think that we are just trying to be against everything you say.
EDIT:
Yep, map naming is there.
Sorry.
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Y00tz, i would have taken pictures of some turazno tiles and dirty tiles and bricks, but i don't have a camera. I tried to provide criticism, but what can one man do while sitting on his ass watching other people work their asses off to help this community?
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Umm, exactly what you did? Suggest stuff, etc. I listed you in the credits because you helped, and really, you probably have no idea how much, but you did. I saw your request for a fence, and it made me start thinking in a whole different direction... it's not just simple textures were talking about... now it's about building a world. Simple stuff like the suggestions and ideas that were thrown around, is what's going to make this pack strive to be more than it is now.
EDIT:
Yep, map naming is there.
Sorry.
And nobody was against it THEN. See my position?
I'm really glad I made this pre-release.
Anyway guys, anything that doesn't directly apply to the announcement of this release, please post in the discussion thread (as I posted in the first post) And I'll move these posts over there tomorrow, in the mean time, good night.
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I think I have the solution to the naming problem!
http://www.ninjapirate.com/how-to-name-files-properly-and-efficiently-so-that-everyone-can-read-them-without-hassle-or-misunderstanding.htm.html
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I see a problem right when i open the link
Champter 1: MP3s
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:P Just read it.
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Haha, good stuff :D
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intercourse that!!! If I named my files like that says I would go crazy.
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Yet, Eiii chose only to make one pointless, off-topic, 2-digit post. http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=6746.msg74904#msg74904.
THE SCANDAL IS UNCOVERED. I AM DEFEATED, GOOD SIR.
Oh, wait. Before I posted, that thread has exactly nothing to do with what I'm debating with you here. Let's review:
My points:
- Changing textures after you've released them could mess up maps and stuff. We've already resolved this.
- Adding the ctp1 prefix/suffix is just a bad idea. A lot of people won't do it or won't know to do it, so we'll have a handful of maps that to have the ctp and a ton that don't. That'll only cause confusion.
SITUATION TWO:
I don't want one hundred maps in my directory with ctp in the front. That'd make it pretty hard to find a specific map, yes? Yes.
The points of discussion that I replied (haha) to:
- How to name the textures.
- Uhh... new textures
You cannot say I didn't oppose your proposal when I had never even seen it.
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My proposal? If by that you mean, the prefix stuff? That has been in front of you for weeks now. All you ever had to do was click "Show new replies to your posts." .. read the post, think, comment.
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I'm not sure how I missed that. I was, at one point not too long ago, gone for a couple days. Might have been then. Sorry for not catching up, but it's not as if with that post huge plans that took months to plan were put into motion. You're talking about recommending a prefix. I don't think it cause anything but confusion.
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All you ever had to do was click "Show new replies to your posts." .. read the post, think, comment.
That's all I do ever do lol :) by the way why are all you guys against modifying the textures after releasing them he can just call them something else and then tadah your done!
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For all the pub newbies, ctp_ could mean Crucify The Penguins. Like a game mode, in stuff like CS:S
*ViciouZ goes to vote for that game mode.
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That's all I do ever do lol :) by the way why are all you guys against modifying the textures after releasing them he can just call them something else and then tadah your done!
And have 100 textures that are the same but with little tweaks?
Only way I think that could happen is that they make a high res version.
They simply shouldnt be modified, they are supposed to be done
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Nothing is ever "done", really. Things can always stand to be tweaked and improved. I don't see why it would be a big deal if a blurry/unrealistic/poorly tiling texture was polished up a bit more to be cleaner/shaper/better looking. It's not like he's going to be replacing the old textures with something completely different.
I don't think the map names fall under the category of the texture pack. Those are up to the mapper. The ctp1_ prefix might be good for "tech demo" maps showing off the textures, but for the average user/admin loading a map, that's just 5 more characters to type.
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I was thinking Jits, will the next release be a major re-write to the GLS problem (the 20 second logins)? If so, that puts the faster in-game downloading back a build or two... which is perfect, because I'll be glad to opt out of the prefix if the user can download the textures instantly via fast downloads, rather than realize they need a texture pack - exit game - and run to the downloads section.
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I might be able to resolve the login issues with a quick hack to cache the reverse DNS names in the database. In any case, it will be a global login server side fix and not require any new game releases.
As for the prefix, I don't think most people will even know what "ctp" means, let alone know that they need to go somewhere else to download the files. In fact, a lot of people probably just stare at the "Loading" screen and aren't aware that files are even being downloaded.
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Exactly.. :(
But faster downloading will apply to all files, not just maps right? At any rate, users who don't have the ctp, should be able to get it quickly with the faster in-game downloads..
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Correct.