Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: Brewsky on July 01, 2007, 06:15:17 PM
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I'm not posting this for a flame-fest, more for awareness and to maybe request a possible solution.
About a week ago, Allstarz was matching iJ. On the tie map, a 1v1 situation occured with both remaining players in possession of the other team's flag. The players passed each other and went to swap cap points. Jigsaw from team iJ capped first and immediatly disconnected, ending the round. This forced Allstarz into a 3 point gain instead of 5 from capping. It was a blatent disconnect (Jigsaw reconnected immediatly saying "OOPS!"), and as a team we decided was cheating, and immediatly left the server. I would like opinions on what other people think. I also would like to know if there are any possible solutions/settings that could prevent this from happening in the future.
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They should be legal however punishable... maybe after they disconnect have some sort of reward for the screwed over team... ie 2 shot kill or dont let that disconnected player play the next round... it could work? im not sure
-<VQ>BliZz
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Don't match Ij, or any clan with Jigsaw in. Problem solved. (Although the amount of spoofing Jigsaw does this may not be a viable solution).
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Brewsky,
I totally agree with you. It's a cheap tactic but what do you expect from ij.
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Oh my looks like Jigsaw needs to work on his sportsman ship.
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I've played him before....he wasn't that good...I had like 10 more kills than him at the end of the round...but I guess that is sorta cheating cuz he didn't play the game how it's suppose to be play.
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They have pulled that disconnect tactic for quite a while now. I remember playing them on Carpathian and they disconnected about 5 times when we had easy caps. It didn't bother me really, just made me laugh considering we still won by a huge margin.
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Yep, they've done it a ton of times with 20ID/eR33t... ij is a joke, but that's old news.
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I think it deserves a one week global ban. Its THAT lame.
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No, what needs to happen is that no other clans need to match ij. THAT would fix the problem.
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What would fix the problem would be, make a server and get everyone in and then put a password on the server so no one knows what it is....Thats if you can put a password on after everyone has joined the game.Then if jigsaw or whome ever tries this wont be able to get back into the game, thus the other clan loses a player.
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It doesn't matter. Jigsaw got busted for having a half ounce of weed and his bong. So we probably won't see him for a while.
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Are you sad? This excrement happens every day. Just the fact that you put my name there doesn't mean anything, if I came here and named all the people who have d/c'd in matches we've played in, it'd be a good list.
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KiLo... honestly lol I dont think that was necessary... If that is true than I dont think you need to exploit it to the whole community to have them think less of Ij than they already do... I think Jigsaw would do it himself if he wanted everyone to know that kind of info... w.e im not stickin up for him, he knows hes a former hacker and not very well liked by everyone but still
-<VQ>BliZz
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Jig is talking about it on IRC right now so I really don't think he cares.
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A lot of people love me. A lot of people don't, I don't care what anyone in an internet game thinks about me.
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I like the idea of a lock_server command.
EDIT:
But Jigsaw, no one really respects you.
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Yeah Jigsaw...I've played you in normal servers and your not that good...so the only way you can actually stand a chance in a match is by disconnectiing and saying it was an "accident"
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First I would like to apologize to Starz for what JiGSaW did. We don't know why he did it. It wasn't like we were on TeamSpeak saying "Reconnect FTW", because we weren't. What he did was all on himself and I do believe he was high that night. Which would explain some of it.
To Olbaid, why would you complain about it? We knew we were going to lose so we decided to have some fun. You won by a lot and you went home happy. I also don't get why everyone has to point the gun at us. We have seen many people reconnect in matches and we don't come whining on the forums.
Also 20id, since your talking about sportsmanship. I liked how you spammed for five minutes strait, as in nonstop, not even while playing. That, I must say just makes you look so good and very professional, and then you insult us. Once again the people complain about stuff other people do but find that it's right to do it to others. The only people that should ever make a thread like this is the people that have never done anything that is disrespectfull, or shown bad sportsmanship in DP. Which is VERY VERY few people, if any. So I think you all need to grow up a little bit and accept the fact that you have wronged, so don't complain about people wronging you. I'm not saying it should go back and forth like it does, but it's a fact of life.
Smokey, I would just like to ask why you are commenting? Especially in a negative way like that. You don't play that I know of and you don't contribute to the game that I know of. You just find it necessary to go around flaming people for no apparent reason. Maybe trouble at home, or a girl won't go out with you. I don't know what your problems are, but please, don't take your anger and frustration out on others. Get a therapist or something, maybe that would help you.
Red Blood98, I would like to point out that pub play and match play are two different things. He hardly tries at all in pubs, and most of us don't either. So if you have a clan or want to get one together with your friends, we would be happy to match you. Maybe then you would see the other side of JiGSaW, and the rest of the clan.
I hope I at least kind of resolved some things with that. I know everything will still probably be the same. But, it can't hurt to try every now and then.
HERE COME THE FLAME POSTS I CAN FEEL IT!!!!!
Which would just show how immature this community is. :( (And yes I know I can act immature I admit it. But it is not right and I know that.)
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FLAM
lolspelling
Anyway, decent post. When a member of your clan is giving your clan a bad name, that'd be a pretty good time to kick them out. Clans are represented by the players that are in them.
EDIT: Just re-read Smokey's post. What he said really wasn't any worse than what Knack said. No reason to single him out in this case.
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Sorry for the spelling, I'm a bit tired.
The reason I singled out smokey is because as far as I know he doesn't play anymore. He doesn't contribute positively to the community that I know of. At least not lately. So I just can't figure out why he would just find the need to randomly post a not too nice reply to something that doesn't concern him. In my opinion, Smokey has no say anymore in DP related topics. If you don't play the game don't comment about what goes on in it.
I understand KiLo might not have been nice either. It also doesn't directly concern him. But he is currently trying to become a positive contributor to this community. At least from what I've read in his posts it seems like it. In my opinion, he still has a say.
EDIT: Sorry forgot this the first time. ;D
It's hard to just kick out a member of our clan, because it's very hard to get a replacement. Most of the good players are already in a clan. The remaining people just aren't quite up to par with the rest of our team. We play very well together most of the time and don't want to break that up. We only have about 5 or 6 active members at the moment. We can't afford to lose anyone.
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Im willing to bet that smokey has contributed more to DP than you.
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Could you elaborate please?
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Whatever Smokey may have accomplished, he's probably undone with all of his trolling.
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Please point out where I was complaining in my post.
To Olbaid, why would you complain about it? We knew we were going to lose so we decided to have some fun. You won by a lot and you went home happy. I also don't get why everyone has to point the gun at us. We have seen many people reconnect in matches and we don't come whining on the forums.
Please point out where I was complaining? I clearly stated it didn't bother me.
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Well since you posted in a topic that is trying to flame(spelled it right) our clan, it just seems that you would mean to be saying something bad about it or us. Therefore complaining about it to an extent. But I guess you are right.
Misinterpreted
Sorry
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Smokey, I would just like to ask why you are commenting? Especially in a negative way like that. You don't play that I know of and you don't contribute to the game that I know of. You just find it necessary to go around flaming people for no apparent reason. Maybe trouble at home, or a girl won't go out with you. I don't know what your problems are, but please, don't take your anger and frustration out on others. Get a therapist or something, maybe that would help you.
Hmm?
I DO play. I can say I've contributed more to this game than you, and all of Ij put together has. I'm not flaming, I'm telling the truth. You clearly have to resort to personal insults in an attempt to justify jigsaws doings. I have no problems at all, thats a retarded claim.
The first accusations in the post are false, and the last accusations are just stupid, Way to look like a champ.
EDIT:
Eiii, What trolling? Sure I'm an excretory opening to the occasional person, but its not like they take me serious.
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Well considering we agree on renoir as tie, and then you guys being the only ones that have login, leave the map on propaint1, trying to make us play that for a tie, I think flooding for 5 minutes is nothing. Especially with the great ignore feature. But yet again, that's another cheap tactic i have heard you guys pull on other clans. Sorry you guys are only good at one map I guess?
And I have only been apart in like 4 matches in my entire life where someone has disconnected with the intent to prevent a cap (not from a pjack, etc), and 2 of them are against you guys.
That is something I have never done, or honestly, never been on a team where someone as done it. It is not that common, as Jigsaw would have people believe.
Quite frankly I don't care either way. Do as you guys please, if the clan scene was in any decent shape it would be one thing, but it's pretty piss poor right now.
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No, what needs to happen is that no other clans need to match ij. THAT would fix the problem.
Been following this advice for at least 6 months, and I can categorically say my matching experience has been much happier :)
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I think it is a form of cheating, and deserves some type of punishment.
In the meantime why don't we all just agree not to match Ij?
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We all believe that happened but please post a demo and hopefully jitspoe will ban him.
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*.Ij.JiGSaW got the *Blue flag!
*Hitman007 (Carbine) eliminated *[***]Tini (Autococker).
*DaRkNeSS (Autococker) eliminated *Hitman007 (Carbine).
*.Ij.JiGSaW (Carbine) eliminated *[***]NFK (Carbine).
*DaRkNeSS got the *Red flag!
*Red's .Ij.JiGSaW returned the *Blue flag!
.Ij.JiGSaW disconnected.
*Blue's DaRkNeSS earned 2 points for possesion of eliminated teams flag!
Blue team wins the round!
.Ij.JiGSaW is now observing.
.Ij.JiGSaW entered the game (build 18).
.Ij.JiGSaW joined the *Red team.
*[ELIM] .Ij.JiGSaW: intercourse
]condump jigdsc
Dumped console text to ./pball/jigdsc.txt.
(http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/18058/2003280166453783737_rs.jpg)
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bwahahaha, wow.
It just shows how much IJ cares about their fake record.
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Love the reply when he comes back to the server, this kid is too funny.
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I'm quite tired of everone of you.. Jigsaw has been put down long enough about that maybe he shouldn't have done it and you got your point through id say on 2 pages of post and all of you guys have been putting down .Ij. for just about a year now if not longer i mean jesus its horrible.. Makes me sick
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Generally Ij bring it on themselves Dude, thats just the truth.
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all of you guys have been putting down .Ij. for just about a year now if not longer i mean jesus its horrible..
Maybe that says something about Ij, hmm?
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Maybe you all need to give us all a chance hmmm? Its been long enough
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It's been long enough, and you've constantly proved that you deserve it. If I search 'Ij' on the forums, almost all of the results pretaining to your clan are in 'Cheater Reports and Bans'. And here's another thread about cheating. What does that say?
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Since you know we try to get a break but no one will give it so...
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Are you sad? This excrement happens every day. Just the fact that you put my name there doesn't mean anything, if I came here and named all the people who have d/c'd in matches we've played in, it'd be a good list.
Why don't any of you have anything to say back to this? You're not gonna get me banned, you're not gonna get me mad, i'm not quitting dp. Deal with it, stop your complaining, I can't wait for jitspoe to read this.
Red Blood - I'm sorry I try my heart out in pubs, do you want to 1v1 me to see how I can 50-0 you? We can set it up. Come to globalgamers on mirc and come to #team_ij.
Eiii - Who the hell are you? Seriously.
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I'm a giant penis living in the hills of Upper Cambodia, but what's it to you?
In response to your post no one responded to, just because others do it doesn't make it right. </kindergarden> You were caught and reported, so you take the blame.
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Actually I think you should have <Kindergarden> brackets around the first statement you just said. Do you sit at home on your computer all day too like half the people in this game? Really seems like it by your 3k post count, what a great life, sitting on a digital paintball forum talking excrement to people who don't even care.
User banned for this post
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Perhaps you should stop with the personal attacks, and stay on topic.
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What would fix the problem would be, make a server and get everyone in and then put a password on the server so no one knows what it is....Thats if you can put a password on after everyone has joined the game.Then if jigsaw or whome ever tries this wont be able to get back into the game, thus the other clan loses a player.
I like the idea of changing the password mid-match. It would make for a nice "Joke's on you" scenario. Realistically, though, I'm going to need to implement something in the game to prevent this behavior. A couple ideas I have are to a) force respawn a teammate when the last remaining player disconnects or b) allow the round to continue for 1 minute if the last player disconnects while the other team has a flag. You guys might want to head over to the 2007 feature vote thread and vote for this. In the meantime, any clan that does this automatically forfeits the match.
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By </kindergarden> he means that the kindergarden stops there...
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I like the idea of changing the password mid-match. It would make for a nice "Joke's on you" scenario.
not a good option, as people (e.g. observers) could get kicked/lag out and need to reconnect etc.
A couple ideas I have are to a) force respawn a teammate when the last remaining player disconnects or b) allow the round to continue for 1 minute if the last player disconnects while the other team has a flag.
b) sounds good to me
In the meantime, any clan that does this automatically forfeits the match.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, couldn't help myself. But seriously, it's not like that sentence will make any clan follow this unwritten rule now...
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b) allow the round to continue for 1 minute if the last player disconnects while the other team has a flag. You guys might want to head over to the 2007 feature vote thread and vote for this.
I really like this idea. Bear in mind some disconnects are genuine, this would be a nice solution.
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Even in the event of a genuine disconnect, the other team deserves to cap.
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I know, thats why i said that was a good idea :/
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Fine Smokey whatever you say.
For some reason everyone has to take it upon themselves to bring down Ij. Yes we have had people do stupid things. But every clan out there has people do stupid things and no one picks them out. I don't know if it's because we are all relatively new players and you are mad because we can beat you. Or if you just don't like us for some reason that you don't care to explain. There are a couple clans out there that have had multiple people cheat in them. Why don't you people harass them too instead of just us. This is a very bias community. Once you find a clan you don't like, you take it upon yourselves to insult and put them down. Even today with build 18 and 19 and the newest cheat detection software. Most people still insist that we cheat. It's impossible for us to modify the game in any way to gain an advantage.
I love how this topic was started about a week or so after the match happend. It was started maybe a day or two after we completely destroyed Starz in a different match. So I personally think this was done just because they are mad that we beat them.
51-9 on pp1 23-16 on pbcup GG
Also we don't completely understand why they care so much about it. At least Jig doesn't. We were up by at least 5 or more, and we were winning a majority of the rounds. It didn't look good for starz. Plus they don't add losses so it's not like we hurt their record. I'm not saying what he did was right. Just that he doesn't quite understand why you care so much. If you guys are so good you should have made up the 3 points in no time.
I also don't understand why this community can't discuss stuff in an adult manner on the forums. IRC and chat rooms are one thing. But on the forums you should at least try to be a little more professional and decent. We had about three or four posts in this topic that are like that. Then the rest is all bassically "IJ SUCKS BAN THE NEWBS". Which doesn't get anything done.
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Looking at the last page or so, most of the responses are decent. There are a few that are flames like you said, but for the most part they're okay. The least professional or decent posts in this thread are by a fellow member of yours. Again, I think you should reconsider his membership.
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If you notice Hitman, your *team mate* just got yet another ban from the forums for idiotic behavior.
You wonder why ij gets singled out? Take a look in the mirror. Most clans, if they get caught doing something stupid, quit it and all is well. You guys have quite the reputation if bringing it upon yourselves.
Personally, I can't think of another clan around right now that should be ignored more than yours, and I stand behind what I meant when I said that clans should just stop matching ij. That would solve a lot of problems.
Now, bringing other issues with other clans in to thsi thread is off topic. If you want to flame or complain about another clan, start a new thread.
This thread started with a pretty clean post by a member of the community who was bothered by the actions of a member of your clan. It was pretty civil and straight forward. No bloat, no flaming.
Think about it....
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Yes Jig does do a lot of stupid things. But not matching the clan because of a person? Considering the higher end clan scene is already pretty much dead. Taking away one of the most active clans won't help it.
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Yes Jig does do a lot of stupid things. But not matching the clan because of a person?
AGAIN, clans are represented by who they choose to accept into their clan. You let someone in who causes trouble, then you're whole clan causes trouble. They are, after all, wearing your tag the whole time.
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First, you guys about all got banned from ETG for being a$$e$, then you had several members caught hacking and you did nothing to clean up your reputation ( ie.. get rid of the hacking members)
So, not matching a clan is actualyl cleaning house from the inside out, and by not matching you, or your clan, the "most active clan", other clans will match each other.
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First of all, I don't think people were trying to "pick on" Ij. Brewsky was just asking for something to be done to prevent people from doing this.
Plus they don't add losses so it's not like we hurt their record.
It's not that we were mad about losing, because we clearly didn't lose. It's just the fact of how lame it is to play for 1.5 hours just to have someone ruin it on purpose.
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Knack Not all got Banned just to let you know.
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AGAIN, clans are represented by who they choose to accept into their clan. You let someone in who causes trouble, then you're whole clan causes trouble. They are, after all, wearing your tag the whole time.
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Knack Not all got Banned just to let you know.
I am aware of that
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Several of the big clans have people who have been caught cheating in the past, but Ij easily has the record for the number of their members who were previous hackers, on multiple occasions.
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OK ....
Let's keep the discussion back on cheating by disconnecting.
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You know there is an easy way to prevent this. Make the rules of the matches, to where the flag has to be at the base to cap. This would prevent disconnecters, and nothing has to be updated in the game.
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Make the rules of the matches, to where the flag has to be at the base to cap.
Thats a terrible config in my opinion.
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You know there is an easy way to prevent this. Make the rules of the matches, to where the flag has to be at the base to cap. This would prevent disconnecters, and nothing has to be updated in the game.
A couple problems with this:
- There is no standard written set of match rules
- Flag must be at base is a huge change to the CTF dynamics. Flag trading has been an important strategy for top-tier teams for almost a decade.
- If a team has a clear shot at a cap with their own flag(s) at base, they are still susceptible to having their opponents disconnect to prevent points.
jitspoe's suggestions have made the most sense. I'm still upset at the change that was made which allowed players joining a team to spawn in after 60s rather than the next round. Sometimes teams abuse this by subbing players mid-round or going observer and rejoining to prevent respawns.
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Yeah but this is the simplest way of preventing it without having to add a feature to the game and waiting on a new build. Yeah I see what your saying about the disconnect in a sure cap situation for the other team. They do not get 5 pts before the disconnect, and the other team still gets 3pts., while they get 0 pts. If your team had the flag as well as the other team having the flag, why would you disconnect to take your chances away to get 3 or 5 pts, its just not logical to give the other team 3 pts. unless its in a tight game and you already have the lead with a min or 2 to go. Which then would you really want your team trashed on the forums for disconnecting in a tight game? Its really not a huge change to the CTF dynamic as the object is still to cap the flag. I also think it adds more skill to the game. As no longer can you just strategize getting the caps the fastest, you have to strategize to protect your flag and also get the other teams flag at the same time. Though if we combine this feature with password changes at the start of the match, this would let the team in control of the server have the ability to tell the members the new pass.
So there is really no quick fix, we could come up with a hall of shame for these clans that do this. I mean you couldnt just go by someones word. I mean if they had a demo or a screenshot of the offense, as this poster does, then the clans would be added to the list. It is not right that clans do not get punished for such behavior, even if atm there is no way to prevent it from happening.
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I basically agree with shooter. I think having the flag-must-be-at-base thing would be good for matches.
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no it wouldnt. So many occasions when your flag is not home because you know your enemy is there and you wont send it and in this case you wont be able to cap on him...
or when you are losing and both you and your enemy grab its obvious that your enemy will try to evade you so both cap...
I've been matching like this for 10 months and i've always liked it.
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Its really not a huge change to the CTF dynamic as the object is still to cap the flag. I also think it adds more skill to the game. As no longer can you just strategize getting the caps the fastest, you have to strategize to protect your flag and also get the other teams flag at the same time.
I will admit that flag must be at base is usually a rule in most other CTF variations (q2, q3, q4, etc.), but the other thing to keep in mind is that they usually have instant or 2-3s respawns. If people are going to hate on campers and "liners" as much as they do now, then flag must be at base is just going to escalate the whining to a whole new level. Defensive strategies are accepted, but camping at flags with the way most bases are designed is really frowned upon. If this flag must be at base setting is changed, most maps wouldn't work and new maps would need to be changed such that flags are placed well ahead of the spawns and very accessible by multiple routes.
Though if we combine this feature with password changes at the start of the match, this would let the team in control of the server have the ability to tell the members the new pass.
I believe mid-match password change is a horrible idea. It creates an opportunity for abuse by the team that controls or has reserved the server. The match environment that exists now is very casual in the way that matches are started on the fly, teammate spectators are allowed and mid-match substitutes have become part of the game. Since I've started playing this is how the competitive scene has been, and they've always been very resistant to change.
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Let them adapt or whine....
Yeah i thought that was implied on the second part. Where I said one team would have control over the pass
And about changing the matching scene in this game. Its just about dead....,
When I match with my clan there are no spectators, thats just stupid.
To Mag:
Thats why you dont let the other team start winning. If your never losing you dont have to worry about this lol. Comebacks shouldnt be easy.
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OMG OMG this is so funny that u guys get this worked up over an online game. Yes JiGSaW was wrong by disconnecting, but he made a mistake. ToMas Vendetta also tryed the idea of "dOnTT MattCHH iJ!!111" didnt work too well, just shows that they arent on the same skill level.
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Who wants to match with an unsportmanship clan, yes I know this sounds stupid but Im in a good mood today...
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Much less fun wothout comebacks ;)
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I'm still upset at the change that was made which allowed players joining a team to spawn in after 60s rather than the next round. Sometimes teams abuse this by subbing players mid-round or going observer and rejoining to prevent respawns.
I don't really remember that change, but I think the good outweighs the bad. Some rounds never end, or go on for 10-15 minutes, so a new player connecting would be stuck not being able to play during that time. (I really think flagcapendsround should be set on pub servers to cut down on the endless rounds/capfests, but that's another issue). Even during matches, players may legitimately disconnect due to connection issues or whatever, and the team would be forced to play the remainder of the round one man down. I'm not sure why mid-round subbing would be considered abuse.
... and new maps would need to be changed such that flags are placed well ahead of the spawns and very accessible by multiple routes.
That's the way maps should be anyway, regardless of settings, otherwise teams tend to use the "pull ahead then stay in the base" tactic, preventing the enemy team from being able to grab the flag without first killing all of the defense.
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Here's something funny I had this exact scenario happen to me today in a scrim with j4f.
Here's a screenshot:
(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8701/hadisconnectyv2.jpg)
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actually kilo i was lagging so bad i wanted to reconnect to see if it would help. as u can see in this demo i do lag alot and if im ever completely still im most likely lagging out.
(i love the part when kilo calls out Aimbot and Wallhack=] )
and dont ask how i play with uBer lag and 70 fps
http://rapidshare.com/files/40910622/auto_20070703_174355_propaint1.dm2.html
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wow what kind of textures are those? my dp doesnt look nearly as good as that does.
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wow what kind of textures are those? my dp doesnt look nearly as good as that does.
If you are talking about mine, they are high-res textures.
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Here's something funny I had this exact scenario happen to me today in a scrim with j4f.
Here's a screenshot:
and since I was sitting next to MONEY as he was matching and our dialup was crapping out, I'll vouch for him.
<off-topic>
and don't get me started on all the hacking accusations since I saw the whole match...
/me glares @ Kilo
</off-topic>
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If you are talking about mine, they are high-res textures.
And tile terribly
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Can just picture KnacK in the background yelling "DISCONNECT BEFORE HE CAPS" to his kid.
KnacK used to make me disconnect on caps when I was in [?].
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/me looks around.......
That was way too long ago for me to remember.......
/me pops another Geritol
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Like the pot calling the kettle black.
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First of all, XB is joking.
Second, XB and myself have been here essentially sicne day one ( well, we played QWPB too)
If I had my way, there would be several members of the community that would never be allowed on a server, in the forums, or irc. They add nothing to this game.
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Thanks for the attention to this problem, to the rest of you that got cranky and made what should have been a 2 page forum a 5 page forum... shame shame. Now excuse me while I make out with Knack.