Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: FourthX on October 02, 2007, 04:08:30 PM
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Here's some snaps for you guys, test copies are being sent and we should have a public copy up soon.
(http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/27952/2003612989350998696_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003612989350998696)
(http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/28924/2003690842666739747_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003690842666739747)
(http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/30900/2003619369541193571_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003619369541193571)
(http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/30900/2003658093609288837_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003658093609288837)
(http://aycu07.webshots.com/image/28646/2003653944385579194_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003653944385579194)
Map Notes:
1. Almost entirely terrain based
2. Reasonable r_speeds (worst case while on the ground is about 950)
3. Only semi-symmetrical
FtX
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Looks great can't wait for the beta.
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I bet it's gonna get played almost as much as Encounter and Roundup.
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Roundup is one of my favorite match maps, so it'd be great if it was like a roundup type gameplay.
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Wow i cannot wait for a beta, i would love to test it or see some of the others you're working on.
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I bet it's gonna get played almost as much as Encounter and Roundup.
Lol, we always play roundup...
Screenies look nice, as if i don't want to match on it, but take some sandwiches, a book and have a lovely picnic :D
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i like roundup. and encounters one of my all time favorite maps.
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nice fourthy, lol
the ledgejump was a little weird to make at first :D
nice work, kinda reminds me of my camp map a bit :D
are those ledges that lead to nowhere near the sides supposed to be dead ends?
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I wasn't saying they're bad maps, I meant that they don't get played very often.
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roundup is the main tie breaker besides pp1 usually :P
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roundup is the main tie breaker besides pp1 usually :P
Since when is ROUNDUP the main tiebreaker map??
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Well it certainly gets played often in any case.
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My maps from 5-6 years ago are starting to get played now finally, maybe this one will be popular in 2011. In any case I don't care much about it, I really only make maps for one person :). This may stand a better chance than encounter or roundup though, it fits small and medium teams better than either of those 2 maps. It also doesn't have the added defensive burdon of encounter or the 'which way did he go?' of roundup. It's more to the point and even works for 1v1 I think.
If anyone has some space for the bsp I'll put the public beta up today. Send me a pm here if you have room, File is about 1.3 megs.
Xile> Not sure which ledge you mean, can you take a screeny of it?
FtX
Few more snaps for ya, last 3 show off the vis techniques I used (Hopefully I can explain it well enough later)
(http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/29601/2005516543789519225_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005516543789519225)
(http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/28043/2005586593324200812_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005586593324200812)
(http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/29058/2005500984341442151_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005500984341442151)
(http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/27887/2005577739954004252_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005577739954004252)
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Did you do anything special for your VISing, like hint brushes? Or is it just all in the map construction?
EDIT: And why is that mound of dirt an entity? DSM?
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The grid pattern of the terrain is lined up with a checkerboard of hint brushes (Not visible here) that pre-break the map into squares (dual tris) before the normal poly breakup occurs. This has 2 effects that I've found so far, one is to produce far less poly breakup even when small objects touch the area (the small barricade legs) and the second effect is a highly efficient vis (seen above).
I will make the .map available when testing is done, I think i can seperate the hint brushes into a func_group so it's easy to see. Currently the map is in .qkm format (quark) and the hint brushes are in a folder. The quark based q2 compilers are needed I think to take advantage of the hint brushes in this way but AFAIK this is still compatible with bsp.
FtX
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I think we need to do some QBSP/VIS re-writing or something, since a lot of people seem to have problems with the VIS stage.
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I think the biggest problem with the vis stage is that people don't plan around it, experience may be the only cure for that little ill.
Detail brushes need to be tagged as they are made, trying to go back later and detail every little stump and pipe is not easy.
An understanding of how the zones are broken up and just what can see what is invaluable.
A strong leak proof hull is proof against other problems...
Etc etc, all of these come with time and trial. (and strong methodology)
I didn't really have a clear understanding of it myself until splatmesa, that was the 1st map I used hint brushes to fix and it took the r_speeds down by 2-300 in some spots with 3 largish hint brushes pre-breaking the bases and mid.
FtX
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Looks nice, can't wait till it's done
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Yeah knowing when to detail and how to fix leaks is extremely important. I don't think I fully understood it until crimethink (seeing as just about every brush in idolatry was detailed).
Yeah before we detailed it vis would not even work, it came out to something like 11k portals.
FtX
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http://www.mediafire.com/?ahvt1sjtrnt
Enjoy!
FtX
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Very nice :). I thought you had vanished... nice job man
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Thanks for the kind words gentlemen, here's the bsp http://www.mediafire.com/?ahvt1sjtrnt
FtX
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Thanks for the kind words gentlemen, here's the bsp http://www.mediafire.com/?ahvt1sjtrnt
FtX
The map looks awesome. But I'm curious. Why are those mounds of dirt entities?
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all 3 dirt mounds and all 4 boulders were grouped into func_walls because they are too big to fit within 1 vis chunk of the map and caused excessive poly break up. I had a goal of keeping it under 1000 r_speeds in the center and this was necessary to meet that goal.
FtX
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eek, grass trees :(
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Hey fourth,
a few things that occurred to me when I had a wander round Ranger...
- floating crates! I imagine probably a 1-unit r_speeds curtailing measure, but it's a little obvious in my opinion.
- the rocks at the bases seem top heavy, like if it was the real world the rock would be tipping over to roll down the hill.
- I know the bases are meant to be asymetrical, but it seems a little unbalanced for blue to have a camp spot/hiding spot just behind their flag, and red to have theirs totally open.
- the use of the 2 rock/cliff textures throughout seems weird to me. I hate to sound like a texture fascist, but it's a bit jarring as the 2 textures are so different it doesn't seem consistent that they'd be right next to each other.
- In my opinion, using texture ladder flags on jumps is a bit of a cop out - it makes it too easy. ie, if even I can do it every time, its too easy ;)
- The shadows are a bit weird, like they are choppy and random in places. I doubt you'll be able to do anything about that though.
Otherwise I quite like it. It'll take me a little practice to get faster lines, but on the whole I think it's good fun. I only wish I could make a map vis this good.
- Dagless M.D
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wow nice^^
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Wow, maps looks great.
I cant wait till its finished and on the servers.
Good job FourthX.
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Some problems i have found, i am not sure if they are suppose to be like this.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b84/paintcan_/sshot044.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b84/paintcan_/sshot045.jpg)
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Are you using ArghRad for lighting? There's some really odd lighting stuff in some places.
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Not more lollipop trees! Why, FourthX? WHY?! *sniff* Woodgrain textures, too! At least use bark!
Ok, I had to get that out.
I'll give it a more thorough run through in a bit, but a few things I noticed:
- Lots of wood textures need to be rotated, like the top edges of bunkers will be good, but the sides need to be rotated 90 degrees.
- Rock textures look really inconsistent.
- The moat around the base is really annoying if you accidentally fall in - maybe add some ladders or something to make it easier to get out.
- One of the dirt brushes overlapped and stuck out of the side of a hill.
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Just a thought but the ladders around the mid should be changed to actual ladders instead of just being there looking like wood planks.
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this is a ok map i guess. less then what i really would expect from such a talented mapper. as jitspoe said lollypop tree? wheres the custom textures??? why are people still making such plain maps?
this map looks like it will be fun to play but im still a lil disapointed ;_; *sniffles*
4thx you are still one of my fav mappers dispite what i think, you have a very good way of visioning maps.
i guess im the only one bent on the texturing of maps and not wanting to use the same textures on the other 2000+ maps for dp :P
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Arghrad and I don't get along, it does not handle this type of terrain well at all, if I have time it will have some soft point lights to smooth out the rough areas.
Termi> 1st thing is a mistake (thanks) second thing is intentional, I wanted the rocks to look like they were dug around.
FtX
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Well just infront of the flag there is this little pool. When you are underwater and look the walls, then there are 2 textures for walls, which looks wrong to be honest. Took a sshot too:
http://scythe.planet.ee/sshot111.jpg
It looks even more wrong on the other base.
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It doesn't look like your current RAD compiler works that well with that sort of terrain, either. >_>
If by 'does not handles this type of terrain well' you mean it's slow, then you can outsource the compiling (at least the RAD stage) to someone else who's computer will be able to do it more quickly.
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Asthetics aside I am awwed. As large opened (which I perefer) and as much water as there is my frame rate never dropped in fact in some places it raised as i got closer to the water. As far a from a tatical standpoint, map makers you need to consider all level of players. I see this being learned quickly as in it is fun and can accomidate a good croud with out loosing any rates.
All hail 4thx. Thanks bud!!!
More to come....as I review it.
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Hey fourth,
a few things that occurred to me when I had a wander round Ranger...
- floating crates! I imagine probably a 1-unit r_speeds curtailing measure, but it's a little obvious in my opinion.
- the rocks at the bases seem top heavy, like if it was the real world the rock would be tipping over to roll down the hill.
- I know the bases are meant to be asymetrical, but it seems a little unbalanced for blue to have a camp spot/hiding spot just behind their flag, and red to have theirs totally open.
- the use of the 2 rock/cliff textures throughout seems weird to me. I hate to sound like a texture fascist, but it's a bit jarring as the 2 textures are so different it doesn't seem consistent that they'd be right next to each other.
- In my opinion, using texture ladder flags on jumps is a bit of a cop out - it makes it too easy. ie, if even I can do it every time, its too easy ;)
- The shadows are a bit weird, like they are choppy and random in places. I doubt you'll be able to do anything about that though.
Otherwise I quite like it. It'll take me a little practice to get faster lines, but on the whole I think it's good fun. I only wish I could make a map vis this good.
- Dagless M.D
1. Some crates will come down (mostly in the bases) I can spare some poly for that I think
2. The rocks are stuck into the ground, probably won't change em just for aesthetics.
3. Both bases have their plusses and minuses and may be adjusted before final release.
4. The cobbled stone pattern represents things that were built up rather than being built on the rock strata. Not sure if this will change to another texture but I will look at it.
5. The clip ladder in the bases is for newbies, gotta have some stuff for them as well as the pros.
6. Arghrad hates me and my nutty (do terrain in q2 engine) ideas
FtX
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Well just infront of the flag there is this little pool. When you are underwater and look the walls, then there are 2 textures for walls, which looks wrong to be honest. Took a sshot too:
http://scythe.planet.ee/sshot111.jpg
It looks even more wrong on the other base.
The moat is part built and part just dug out of the existing rock, those textures will stay as they are. Possibly I may use a different cobbled texture for the constructed bits. Really it's the least of my worries.
FtX
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It doesn't look like your current RAD compiler works that well with that sort of terrain, either. >_>
If by 'does not handles this type of terrain well' you mean it's slow, then you can outsource the compiling (at least the RAD stage) to someone else who's computer will be able to do it more quickly.
I used arghrad, as I said it doesn't handle tri-based terrain. Short reason: Shadows are cast backwards from the face to the object to the light, not from the light accross the object to the face. The numerous tris at different angles come up with radically different ideas of how much light is on them even though they are right next to each other.
Even using -chop 32 -choplight 32 - chopwarp 32 - chopsky 32 did not help much, it did make it less noticable but failed to erradicate the problem.
FtX
PS: Even with those settings the whole lightcompile took less than 12 minutes. Speed is not the issue.
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Maybe you cut those 2 textures from the water level. So when underwater they dont look awkward.
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Not more lollipop trees! Why, FourthX? WHY?! *sniff* Woodgrain textures, too! At least use bark!
Ok, I had to get that out.
I'll give it a more thorough run through in a bit, but a few things I noticed:
- Lots of wood textures need to be rotated, like the top edges of bunkers will be good, but the sides need to be rotated 90 degrees.
- Rock textures look really inconsistent.
- The moat around the base is really annoying if you accidentally fall in - maybe add some ladders or something to make it easier to get out.
- One of the dirt brushes overlapped and stuck out of the side of a hill.
The trees are what they are... Elevated platforms that are a pain to get on to. Also I didn't want any custom textures for this map, just wanted it to be simple and light on the download. Since a couple people have mentioned it I may retexture them.
1. Ill look into those wood texts.
2. Not sure what you mean by this (which rock textures?)
3. One side may get a ladder (I think it's blue side) because of differences in the base design But I'd like to keep the moats kind of a pain, they are easy enough to jump over (standard running jump makes it easy).
4. The dirt bit will go, termi posted this on a screenie also
FtX
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Just a thought but the ladders around the mid should be changed to actual ladders instead of just being there looking like wood planks.
It's a r_speeds issue, the texture is simple and does the trick, how much time do people spend staring at ladder textures anyway?
FtX
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this is a ok map i guess. less then what i really would expect from such a talented mapper. as jitspoe said lollypop tree? wheres the custom textures??? why are people still making such plain maps?
this map looks like it will be fun to play but im still a lil disapointed ;_; *sniffles*
4thx you are still one of my fav mappers dispite what i think, you have a very good way of visioning maps.
i guess im the only one bent on the texturing of maps and not wanting to use the same textures on the other 2000+ maps for dp :P
Maybe the critics will hate this one and people will play it :) I dunno really, I made it how I saw it in my mind and as I told jits I didn't want to use custom textures. Now with the CTTP I may start using more but getting the server admins to have all those custom textures I should be using is a giant pain in the ass. Much more trouble then I wanted for this map (took less than a week to make).
FtX
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Nice work FtX, love the map.
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Termi> 1st thing is a mistake (thanks) second thing is intentional, I wanted the rocks to look like they were dug around.
FtX
Glad i could help FourthX, always here for something. :D
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Isn't what I was expecting when you said all terrain base.
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I'm merging these two topics since it was confusing having discussions going on in both of them at the same time. You might want to edit your first post with the download link.
Edit: Also made a demo of things to revise and uploaded your map to the beta server (see PM for details).
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Gameplay on map is great. It has few minor bugs (cant get out of water on fg right side, when dj-ing from box to ledge near fg you can get stuck). At first I didn´t like it to much, but after playing it more i began enjoying it. Could be really good match map.
Good job.
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Just noticed this it looks kind of weird and not sure if it's been mentioned but here you go......
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- Some smooth Shading added
- Alpha trees (that cast shadows!)
- Slight Modification to base areas
- Some texture changes
Snaps...
(http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/29039/2003669501424750203_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003669501424750203)
(http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/29039/2003650713371221805_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003650713371221805)
(http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/31420/2003654754579867374_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003654754579867374)
(http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/31420/2003676189375212695_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003676189375212695)
(http://aycu38.webshots.com/image/31437/2003672989820794312_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003672989820794312)
Map: http://www.mediafire.com/?dobjgbylwfj
Texture (pball/textures/fourthx): http://www.mediafire.com/?6cyiesw91ly
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and insights. (happy now jits? :) )
Notes:
- New trees increase poly count slightly, they also make the vis stage take 5-10 times longer than before because shadows are being cast through the alpha textures (each tree has 3 faces, 2 are set to cast shadows. 3 didn't look any better and took even longer to light)
- Multiple alpha textures seems to be ok FPS wise until you get a tree all up in your grill. After a lot of running around and testing It was not too bad even at the worst. People with real old cards may have trouble (let me know please)
- Arghrad still hates me
FtX
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Both meadiafire links did not work for me.
Said "Connection Timed Out"
I will keep trying cause I would like to see the map changes.
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Both meadiafire links did not work for me.
Said "Connection Timed Out"
Same here.
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Ok some time before I leave work I'll upload elsewhere, try back here later on.
FtX
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I downloaded it earlier.
http://digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/downloads/maps/ranger_b2/ranger_b2.bsp
http://digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/downloads/maps/ranger_b2/tree2.wal
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Cool thanks!
FtX
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nice trees, thumbs up
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The contrast in color of the tree's and grass is decent. I've grown attached to the "lolli-pop" trees, so I don't really like that tree texture. Also, the smooth shading you added makes it look pretty.
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Hoping you dont mind if i steal that billboard tree texture :P it looks nice and i need something like that for filler :)
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Yeah, the tree is gorgeous.
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Beautiful work.
However, to be honest, the trees need more work. This style of tree would work for something like a palm tree really nicely. But for the maple tree or whatever it is just seems too weird. Would it be possible to put the lollipop tree in the middle and have the leaf models coming out of it?
There's some strange shadows on the ground, I'm not sure if it's from the terrain or the hint brushes, just looks strange.
It's also a sign that you're a stand up man, since you've already proven your mapping abilities and have come to this forum allowing others to make suggestions.
Good job 4th
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Beautiful work.
However, to be honest, the trees need more work. This style of tree would work for something like a palm tree really nicely. But for the maple tree or whatever it is just seems too weird. Would it be possible to put the lollipop tree in the middle and have the leaf models coming out of it?
There's some strange shadows on the ground, I'm not sure if it's from the terrain or the hint brushes, just looks strange.
It's also a sign that you're a stand up man, since you've already proven your mapping abilities and have come to this forum allowing others to make suggestions.
Good job 4th
That style of tree is what is called a polygonal trunk with billboard/crossed leave textures. when on the ground it looks beautiful. the only time it looks wrong is when youre in noclip flying around :)
Which is why I want to use that texture.. or if I HAVE to, find my own on turbosquid or w/e :P
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Krew :) my hobo homie, the trees have the lolipop shape in place with clip brushes.
Deranged: Knock yourself out, just do me a favor and don't release anything with it until I have ranger done, shouldn't be more than another week or so.
FtX
PS: Alpha Trees with shadows tutorial coming soon, it was one of those happy accidents so I need to reproduce it and make sure I have all the ideas straight in my head.
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i wished my comp could handle reflective water =[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
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make a low or high way like roundup? :/
but awesome map
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Did you mean to share the .wal file instead of .tga? It works, but a 32bit image would look better. Anyway, I've attached a demo of some things you may wish to revise. I've also uploaded it to the beta server (see PM).
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I only have a .wal for it I think, I'll check when I get home.
FtX
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LOOOOOOVEEE THE TREEES. ;D ;D Mostly because just yesterday i was messing with trees that look almost identical to yours. Personally i think that tree style is much more realistic and eye pleasing than the current "loli-pop" style. Good work FourthX
-Cusoman
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It's still lollipop style... but it does look much better, it's actually the tree shadows I'm most impressed with.
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Let's revive this thread, since as Fx stated, he's back from work.
When will Ranger be out of beta?
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trees<3
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Hey all, this map is pretty close to done, if anyone has any last minute suggestions I'm all ears. Also, as I've said earlier I will share all info on how it's done when it's done so anyone wanting the know how just has a little longer to wait.
4thX
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Make all the walls transparent and write <iP>Blitz in rainbow colors on the walls, this will ensure pub time.
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Make all the walls transparent and write <iP>Blitz in rainbow colors on the walls, this will ensure pub time.
and be sure to have one of the teams spawn facing the wrong direction
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And cockers/steel barrels for all! Tralala!!
4thX
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And cockers/steel barrels for all! Tralala!!
4thX
At first I freaked out.
At second I woke up.
At third I realised it was only a dream (praise the someone).