Feature/Request: Level System for DP2 w/ Achievments.

[SnooD]

1ball achievement =]

[Toxiic]

^

also a mini map could work, just not show enemys or anything that can help you pinpoint their location. but there would have to be a set maplist, cant make a mini map layout for 10k maps

Nice idea, how about a mini map that is divided into sectors(like COD ex:B4,C3) this would help out the new players with there recon skills because then a player will only need to tell a sector number or letter, thus the player can go to that area without trouble.

[Clipz]

I think single player/bots are probably a higher priority than this.  

I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.

We should have a vote on what the people want because I'd almost guarantee they would vote for the LVL system over better bots.

[[cP]Pb2x]

It just goes back to pleasing the core or trying to get new players.  I wouldn't want to have to make that decision.

[Toxiic]

It just goes back to pleasing the core or trying to get new players.  I wouldn't want to have to make that decision.

The core is the heart of this game, if the heart dies, well we all know what happens. This will get new players and please the core of the players, because most new games have a level system, so players strive for more thus causing players to be attached to the game longer. As for single player mode, yea its important, but in reality it will not be helping players get into the matching sense and getting them more experience. Also like Clipz said about players getting better if they interact with other online players. Its the same thing in all games, for example: COD if you play online you are 10x better player then someone who plays offline, its a fact. 

[jitspoe]

I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.

We should have a vote on what the people want because I'd almost guarantee they would vote for the LVL system over better bots.

What people want depends on the people.  I'm not sure the forums are an accurate representation of the active and potentially active player base.  Lack of singleplayer/bots is the biggest reason for uninstalls.  Not as many people are uninstalling because of a lack of a ranking/XP system.

The advantage of bots is that they can, if implemented well, help with server population and player activity.  If you want to play a certain map/game mode, and nobody else is playing it, you might just not play, but if you can hop on a server and mess around with some bots for a bit, then other people join in, and once a couple active players are on, more people join in (seems to be how it works), soon you have a server full of real players, and you don't have to sit around by yourself just waiting until that happens.

[Foxhound]

I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.

We should have a vote on what the people want because I'd almost guarantee they would vote for the LVL system over better bots.

Bots > anything else. AI leads to other types of gameplay = more players who stick around. Screw a level system; the player base is like 500 (if that) active people. Have fun having a level and finding a server matchable to other players your level when most of them will be low levels and then a few scattered players will be above and beyond. There will be less of a chance for you to find a pub then when they are locked based on level. This idea has flaws.
  
Bot AI all day.

[Foxhound]

The core is the heart of this game, if the heart dies, well we all know what happens. This will get new players and please the core of the players, because most new games have a level system, so players strive for more thus causing players to be attached to the game longer. As for single player mode, yea its important, but in reality it will not be helping players get into the matching sense and getting them more experience. Also like Clipz said about players getting better if they interact with other online players. Its the same thing in all games, for example: COD if you play online you are 10x better player then someone who plays offline, its a fact. 

Don't think bots just = single player campaign (which would be stupid for this game in all honesty). It would mean less empty servers, Horde mode, Endless possibilities.

[SuperMAn]

A level system would be great but an acceptable AI is way more important.

I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.

The problems is that not enough people give a excrement about this game to get better at it.  There are rarely servers with enough players to have an enjoyable game.  You might get one decent game before everyone disconnects.

A level system has absolutely nothing to do with getting better. Newbies can already see how advanced players play in pubs, and guess what happens?  They constantly die and rage quit.  I believe it would be much more beneficial if new players could join a "Beginner Server"  with low skill bots and learn at their own pace.
I would much rather play a game against advanced bots rather than slaying newbies until they leave. 
I would play this game a lot more if I didn't have to always join an empty server and wait 5 minutes for a person to show up. 


Another point that was made in this thread is whether pleasing the "core" is more important than attracting new players.  Stop fooling yourselves.  The "core" died years ago.  Just because some people talk on irc and post on the forums doesn't make them the "core".  The majority of people that play this game are new players. 



You guys really need to think what would benefit the game the MOST.  Remember there is only one guy on the development team and it is QUAKE2 ENGINE.

Anyways, work is over time to go home.

[Toxiic]

A level system would be great but an acceptable AI is way more important.


The problems is that not enough people give a excrement about this game to get better at it.  There are rarely servers with enough players to have an enjoyable game.  You might get one decent game before everyone disconnects.

A level system has absolutely nothing to do with getting better. Newbies can already see how advanced players play in pubs, and guess what happens?  They constantly die and rage quit.  I believe it would be much more beneficial if new players could join a "Beginner Server"  with low skill bots and learn at their own pace.
I would much rather play a game against advanced bots rather than slaying newbies until they leave.  
I would play this game a lot more if I didn't have to always join an empty server and wait 5 minutes for a person to show up.  


Another point that was made in this thread is whether pleasing the "core" is more important than attracting new players.  Stop fooling yourselves.  The "core" died years ago.  Just because some people talk on irc and post on the forums doesn't make them the "core".  The majority of people that play this game are new players.  



You guys really need to think what would benefit the game the MOST.  Remember there is only one guy on the development team and it is QUAKE2 ENGINE.

Anyways, work is over time to go home.

great to see some pessimistic views on this game. Let me tell you something, the "core" are the people who match, the people who are the backbone off this game, you say that the "core" had died many years ago, no it has not; it has simple deteriated, but can be rebuilt.


By the looks of your comment, you either did not read what Clipz said, or misread and or concluded to a misconceptional thought of what Clipz has stated. The whole idea of the lvl system is so that new players will not need to match against experienced players, that's why the servers will be narrowing down the players by there level. If the single player/bots and this are combined=one of the greatest features ever to be implemented, it will solve most of the flaws of the level system that clipz brought up. Plus, the higher the level for a player, the more experienced that player will be, therefore more advanced players.

[SuperMAn]

So the core is the 10-15 players who still match?  Matching isn't the backbone.

The point I am trying to make is that new players don't want to jump straight into matches before they even know how to play.  There aren't enough players to narrow anything down.  

I am not saying a level system is a bad idea, but there is only one developer.  We are trying to convince him to work on the best possible thing for this game.  I think an AI would benefit this game way more than a level system.  The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now.  It is inevitable that players will start to get interested in playing more competitively, we just have to get them to stick around long enough first.

[JMR]

So the core is the 10-15 players who still match?  Matching isn't the backbone.

The point I am trying to make is that new players don't want to jump straight into matches before they even know how to play.  There aren't enough players to narrow anything down.  

I am not saying a level system is a bad idea, but there is only one developer.  We are trying to convince him to work on the best possible thing for this game.  I think an AI would benefit this game way more than a level system.  The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now.  It is inevitable that players will start to get interested in playing more competitively, we just have to get them to stick around long enough first.

I see your point superman. Matching is defiantly not the backbone, but matching is the ONLY thing that makes gameplay worthwhile. Public servers, to me, mean nothing that much. Newbies don't care where they play, it's not like it 'counts' for anything anyway

Here's my opinion:
A level system makes the game more worth while, compared to bots. Playing against bots just gets boring, playing to achieve goals and 'unlock' higher ranking is way more fun.

People would play pubs a lot more imo, if the time they spent on the pubs were worth while. People normally just play on pubs whilst they chillax, wait for a match, or hangout what's adding bots gonna help do to that? Give them things to chillax with? Idk. Point is, pubs would be more worth while thus more people playing pubs. So "The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now.", can be accomplished with a solid point for playing pubs in the first place - being the lvl system.

Thus making the lvl system higher priority.

[SuperMAn]

For one adding bots would guarantee that there is always a server for you to play in.  It would also add tons of other options like single player missions or other game modes.  I am sure it would also motivate people to start creating more of their own content, which is always helps strengthen the community.


I disagree when you say people normally play on pubs while waiting for a match.  The percentage of people that match is very very low.  Public servers are the game for most people.  The competitive scene is never bigger than the casual one for any game.


The uninstall surveys also disagree.  The number one reason why people uninstall is because of no AI/single player.

A level system would be a luxury, but AI is a necessity.

[Toxiic]

So the core is the 10-15 players who still match?  Matching isn't the backbone.

The point I am trying to make is that new players don't want to jump straight into matches before they even know how to play.  There aren't enough players to narrow anything down.  

I am not saying a level system is a bad idea, but there is only one developer.  We are trying to convince him to work on the best possible thing for this game.  I think an AI would benefit this game way more than a level system.  The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now.  It is inevitable that players will start to get interested in playing more competitively, we just have to get them to stick around long enough first.

well, I see your point. AI are important, but there are flaws to it, are bots going to be shown up on the server browser list as players, or will they be not considered on the player list, in other words if there are 6 bots in a server, then will we be able to view the player (6/12) or will we get (0/12)? If we are able to see them in the players section in the server browser, then what happens if 7 players are trying to connect, will only 6 players be allowed to join and that 1 player that could not be able to join the full server will he have to join another server? Also, ultimately the maps will have to be reduced, inorder for a better bot implementation; due to it's limited ability.( I really don't know how much jitspoe can make the bots better or if it is even possible for the bots to strafe and etc.., so that bots could work with most-all maps). Will all servers have AI? That could be messy; it would distribute players into other servers.

If the bots don't show as players, then new players will not go into that server due to seeing that server not be active, and if they are, then players will have to wait till another player leaves, but to solve this, is it possible that the bot with the least kills be disconnected/or kicked automatically kicked, so that a player could join. As for the all servers having the bots, how about have certain amount of servers with the bots implemented, so NA would have three, then Euro should have x amount depending on the activity, and as the player activity increase; just increase the servers that have bots.

Just a general question: what happend to fourthx and Bain, they are both part of the development team right? It would be great if they came to help jits with this

[SuperMAn]

Here is what I would love to see:

It would work just like in TF2.  There would be a server setting where you set the minimum number of players, say 6 for example.  If no real players are on that server it would be 3v3 all bots. When a real player joins a bot disconnects, another player joins another bot disconnects.  So if there are 6 real players there would be 0 bots.  The server would never drop below 6 players.  The bots would show up on serverbrowser.

Quake 2 had bots so I think jitspoe would just have to add the .nav function to the game.  It probably isn't that simple though.  Then anyone would be able to create their own .nav file/AI.  One would have to be created for every map you want bots on.  You should be able to load as many different AIs as you want into a single game.

It would be a server setting whether you want bots or not, up to server admin.  I think it ties in perfectly with the ranking/certified server system too.  New players will always have a pub available, but if they want they can join some kind of matchmaking queue and get a match will all real players (using certified servers, similar to CS:GO).  Any matches played using matchmaking would count towards your rank, pub matches would not.  Additionally all kills/caps/grabs/matches grant xp which would count towards a level like in COD.

I know that is a huge request, but it all ties in together. I think bots are the highest priority.


Not sure what they are up to, but I assume they either don't have time or aren't interested in helping.

[omni]

IMO: Bots are more important to implement than a level system is. But they are both great ideas to bring the game forward.

[Foxhound]

great to see some pessimistic views on this game. Let me tell you something, the "core" are the people who match

I.E Senix and is baddy BR partner of the day.
Oh and did I forget the banned/evading players?

So much backbone.

[SnooD]

Not to be a smartass but I'm kind of amused here as people obviously want more players to be playing the game but I see people typing on this forum about ideas and some of them don't even play the game themselves anymore....If they were to start playing again it would be a little better at least in the matching scene.

[[cP]Pb2x]

Not to be a smartass but I'm kind of amused here as people obviously want more players to be playing the game but I see people typing on this forum about ideas and some of them don't even play the game themselves anymore....If they were to start playing again it would be a little better at least in the matching scene.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

  And as far as bots guaranteeing a server always open to play on?  All it would do is piss me off personally,  I have 0 interest in playing against bots.  If I wanted to play single player games I would buy a sega genesis.

[Foxhound]

You're not understanding that the bots are used as filler until real people join.. It's not 1 player campaign mode or anything.

It's better than sitting in an empty server.