Author Topic: Wobluda Remake (Read 42856 times)

Primo · « **Reply #80 on:** November 04, 2013, 07:21:36 PM »

honestly i wouldnt mind if wobludas gameplay changed as of right now i feel like i could play wob in my sleep

MyeRs · « **Reply #81 on:** November 04, 2013, 07:44:18 PM »

^ That's why new maps are better to be made.

JMR: You say this, but everytime you release a map you also say EVERYONE loves it. I'm curious who everyone is. Cause it never truly seems to be everyone. I think changing existing maps significantly is stupid. If this map is so widely played, then anything changing the gameplay is counter productive. Those saying it's BETTER to have it changed, makes no sense. They haven't matched on this new "slightly changed" version, so they don't know if it's better. They're supporting your mapping cause its your friends.

If you have such great ideas, and such talented mapping, as you seem to think, then put it towards making a map that can get played, since you've yet to achieve that. Rather than assuming you're improving a map that has actually succeeded to get played by the community.

BASEBALLDUDE · « **Reply #82 on:** November 04, 2013, 08:33:08 PM »

I disagree with MyeRs; I think that what he is doing is very productive. However, JMR, you should probably release Overhang as final. There are no bugs that I nor anyone else can identify on that map, so you might as well do the final release. That way, people will add it to their servers and you will have made a good contribution to the game.

Clipz · « **Reply #83 on:** November 04, 2013, 09:42:35 PM »

New mappers today are at such a disadvantage, whats the last map released to make it, pub or match? I released nonturno_b1 & rallyr_b1 a year ago, not being biased but those are the only two maps I have seen made recently that get play time. Probably because I was a known mapper and they are simple and easy maps to play. This remake can work, just make sure the game play doesn't change. It can change some what but not a ton. I honestly hate the mid game play on this map that I would like to see get bettered but it would be really difficult to do and not worth trying imo.

cusoman · « **Reply #84 on:** November 04, 2013, 10:31:32 PM »

Well, you can do whatever you want, and people can make up their minds on whether or not they want to play it.

Some stuff to consider:

- Don't change flat terrain for sake of making it bumpy. Bumpy terrain like you showed in your first picture just looks like a problem. Those spots used to be flat and ugly, and now they are bumpy and ugly, because they are a bunch of triangles in a square area. Running up and down the main ramp is gonna be weird.
- Watch out for all the stuff you're adding in the sewer, make sure you clip brush all your new geometry to make sure the original movements are the same.

Alot of what MyeRs and others are saying has nothing to do with whether or not your mapping is cool, or if it looks nice, or if it will/will not play well. He's saying any change you make to the geometry is going to change the map. You won't move around the same way, therefore it won't play the same way, therefore this is remake and not a visual upgrade. If it is a remake, you should take the time to change the maps' scale, pacing, and paths so that its a completely new map. Otherwise your changes need to make sure the critical sections of the map remain UNTOUCHED. This is what most of the detractors are getting at.

At some point, you said you wanted to do for wobluda what was done to sassult vs pbcup_sassault. Those maps play insanely differently. Keep that in mind

Screenshots look good so far, definitely a visual improvement. Have fun continuing. I'm attaching a screenshot of the sewers cuz you can't leave the walls with the harsh terrain transitions you have...it looks weird. Jitspoe was hinting at this on an earlier version as well, but it still looks weird. Soften that terrain! Good luck

- Cusoman

LaZeRs · « **Reply #85 on:** November 04, 2013, 10:35:02 PM »

I can't see your screenshot

JMR · « **Reply #86 on:** November 05, 2013, 09:42:52 AM »

Thanks cusoman for the reply.

Spent some time working on softening.

Also, there are clip brushes all along the walls, making it impossible to get blocked

@Myers, could you please stop putting words into my mouth. I didn't say "everyone", it's impossible to please everyone, especially pleasing people who don't actively play anymore

" there are many that think that this remake will make wobluda much better."

JMR · « **Reply #87 on:** November 05, 2013, 09:46:26 AM »

Quote from: BASEBALLDUDE on November 04, 2013, 08:33:08 PM

I disagree with MyeRs; I think that what he is doing is very productive. However, JMR, you should probably release Overhang as final. There are no bugs that I nor anyone else can identify on that map, so you might as well do the final release. That way, people will add it to their servers and you will have made a good contribution to the game.

Thanks baseballdude, but the more I look at overhang, the more I regret making it

my mapping is much cleaner now, overhang doesn't reflect my mapping skill anymore. I can't see the point of fixing up my past maps that no one wants to play. The only map I have had a final release on is village and village_koth

newbies really love koth version especially, normally always players online.

jitspoe · « **Reply #88 on:** November 05, 2013, 10:01:32 AM »

Wait... village is final? There was never a beta feedback thread for it... last I checked, there were a bunch of texture issues and other things I was going to provide feedback on, but you never made a thread about it...

Overhang is pretty good, and there were only a couple minor flow issues. If you don't want to finish it, maybe the map committee could help out?

JMR · « **Reply #89 on:** November 05, 2013, 10:02:29 AM »

Quote from: jitspoe on November 05, 2013, 10:01:32 AM

Wait... village is final? There was never a beta feedback thread for it... last I checked, there were a bunch of texture issues and other things I was going to provide feedback on, but you never made a thread about it...

I had enough feedback from people ingame etc, there was no need to make a thread, I fixed the mis-alignments then final released it. It's now on a server 24/7 see

I asked skyro, mission, omni, wasp, paradead, matzemr and lum1xan, they pointed out what they wanted improved and I did it. I then asked them to try to find misalignments, then I fixed them

MyeRs · « **Reply #90 on:** November 05, 2013, 10:56:14 AM »

Quote from: JordanMRichards on November 05, 2013, 10:02:29 AM

I asked skyro, mission, omni, wasp, paradead, matzemr and lum1xan

Yep, the most experienced and intelligent group of people. Now I understand who all the people who "love" your ideas are.

Do something productive, this isn't productive. Also, pay attention to Cusoman's post cause it's the most relevant in this thread.

JMR · « **Reply #91 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:01:41 AM »

Quote from: MyeRs on November 05, 2013, 10:56:14 AM

Yep, the most experienced and intelligent group of people. Now I understand who all the people who "love" your ideas are.

Do something productive, this isn't productive. Also, pay attention to Cusoman's post cause it's the most relevant in this thread.

Post something productive, this isn't productive.

Lol, them people are some of the most active currently playing the game, so yeah... kinda more intelligent that you at your current inactive state on this game

:D
You need a higher post count or something? Didn't you see my reply to cusoman and what I did? Probably not, you throw out things from your mouth that you don't even use in full context, then you put that junk in other people's mouths, just like you did with "everyone".

Clipz · « **Reply #92 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »

I'm sorry I have to agree with Myers the people you listed know NOTHING about mapping you should have made a public formal release

JMR · « **Reply #93 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:10:30 AM »

Quote from: Clipz on November 05, 2013, 11:07:54 AM

I'm sorry I have to agree with Myers the people you listed know NOTHING about mapping you should have made a public formal release

Can't believe you'd actually judge them to that extent wow. You and myers aren't as intelligent as you claim to be, judging us like that.

skyro and omni are great mappers, they know a lot more about mapping than you think! Skyros map will be released soon and it will blow you guys away

I didn't care much for village, I just wanted newbies to have a new 24/7 server and wanted to have fun making it - which I did. No need for a release on the forums, because it was just a fun- non-serious project for my servers alone

We are getting so off topic here. I don't care whether you agree with myers or not, myers should know better. It's up to ME who I listen to. I don't give a nade about what myers has to say, he's a hater as you put it originally clipz

MyeRs · « **Reply #94 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:17:17 AM »

EDIT: Not worth raging at someone who considers people who have never been in the competitive scene to understand gameplay of competitive scene maps l0l. You didnt even have DP downloaded when Wobluda was released, and its a new map.

1) You have yet to make a map that the competitive scene has used, and Wobluda is a widely used map. You can't say you're improving the gameplay, otherwise you'd understand what it takes to make a map that gets played.

2) You're not visually fixing the map, as you claim, since, as cuso and I both said, you've changed the gameplay with how you've changed terrain and everything. Ok, that's fine.

3) You claim to be remaking the map (without permission), yet, as cuso said, a remake isn't the exact same map with minor terrain/visual changes. A remake isn't copying the exact scale.

So with points 2/3, it leads me to wonder what exactly you're doing? You're not successfully remaking the map, but you're not fixing either. Since you're adjusting gameplay (possible for the better or worse, but given its the most played map for the last 2 years I don't see how it could positively affect gameplay), but you're not changing the map itself.

----------------

If you want to remake the map, then go remake it. If you want to visually fix it, then visually fix it. But what you're doing is an in between, which is the WORST option. Take Wobluda ideas, improve on it, remake the map. Add something different. Or, fix all the visual problems in the map, make it appear nicer. Don't change the visuals so much that it changes the gameplay, then call it a remake.

------------

EDIT2: In reply to "they are great mappers" -- Great mappers, lol. DT is the only GREAT mapper to play this game. Cusoman is probably the second best mapper to play the game. Then there's average mappers, such as Clipz, L!nk, Obi, and some more who have made many "good" maps, but only a few that actually get played. And then there's the people you listed, who have yet to make higher skilled maps, or maps that have been picked up competitively. That's the problem with every newer generation (mine included) of this game, everyone gets arrogant so quickly thinking they're top shet. No. You guys aren't good mappers. You're improving, but you're not there yet.

JMR · « **Reply #95 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:21:12 AM »

Alright myers, your opinion over-rides everyone elses of course, your opinion, coz ur old and all that, over-rides skryo's, omni's, lukip's, mission's opinions?

I have agreed with cuso's reply, yet you still continue to discuss it, I don't get it.

It seems clearly that you hate my maps and me in general. You are a selfish hater myers, that's all you'll ever be to me

I will stop my remake if this junk continues, life's too short to argue with people like you.

P.S
"New mappers today are at such a disadvantage, whats the last map released to make it, pub or match? I released nonturno_b1 & rallyr_b1 a year ago, not being biased but those are the only two maps I have seen made recently that get play time. Probably because I was a known mapper and they are simple and easy maps to play."
-simple as, just because they don't get played, doesn't mean we don't have the intelligence or the skill and it doesn't judge the map either.

People only pick maps they know dude:)

MyeRs · « **Reply #96 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:34:18 AM »

Quote from: JordanMRichards on November 05, 2013, 11:21:12 AM

-simple as, just because they don't get played, doesn't mean we don't have the intelligence or the skill and it doesn't judge the map either. People only pick maps they know dude:)

That's stupid. People pick good maps. How did other good maps get into the game and actively played? Not many people can make gameplay work, even Cusoman cannot make good gameplay in the majority of his maps. A lot of the time, the mapper doesn't even know the gameplay would work out as well as it does. But, I guarantee if DT came back and made a map, it would get played. He's a GREAT mapper. Do not classify omni and whoever else as great mappers.

You guys do lack the skill to call yourselves great mappers. And you lack experience in the game to truly understand gameplay. And you lack skill in the game to make hard jumps. That's a huge problem with newer mappers - although their BSP skill is good, their game skill/experience isn't. Jumps are forced, maps don't flow.

You haven't agreed with Cuso's, and you haven't responded to my posts. You respond to parts you want.

Just answer this: If it's a remake - why are you copying the map with slight visual upgrades? If it's a fix, why are you doing stuff that can change gameplay? -- As I wrote, go for it, do a remake, but if you do - actually remake it. If you want to fix it, go for it, but if you do - don't change the gameplay. That's been my complaint since the start, and you've yet to respond to it.

JMR · « **Reply #97 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:36:25 AM »

Quote from: MyeRs on November 05, 2013, 11:34:18 AM

That's stupid. People pick good maps. How did other good maps get into the game and actively played? Not many people can make gameplay work, even Cusoman cannot make good gameplay in the majority of his maps. A lot of the time, the mapper doesn't even know the gameplay would work out as well as it does. But, I guarantee if DT came back and made a map, it would get played. He's a GREAT mapper. Do not classify omni and whoever else as great mappers.

You guys do lack the skill to call yourselves great mappers. And you lack experience in the game to truly understand gameplay. And you lack skill in the game to make hard jumps. That's a huge problem with newer mappers - although their BSP skill is good, their game skill/experience isn't. Jumps are forced, maps don't flow.

You haven't agreed with Cuso's, and you haven't responded to my posts. You respond to parts you want.

Just answer this: If it's a remake - why are you copying the map with slight visual upgrades? If it's a fix, why are you doing stuff that can change gameplay? -- As I wrote, go for it, do a remake, but if you do - actually remake it. If you want to fix it, go for it, but if you do - don't change the gameplay. That's been my complaint since the start, and you've yet to respond to it.

it is stupid

people only pick maps they know now days. Back in the 'old' days, they used to try new things, now people like you, hate change

life's too short to argue with people like you.
I am doing a remake of the style of the map, idc what you class as a remake.

Going out with family now

MyeRs · « **Reply #98 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:41:36 AM »

Quote from: JordanMRichards on November 05, 2013, 11:36:25 AM

it is stupid people only pick maps they know now days. Back in the 'old' days, they used to try new things, now people like you, hate change

life's too short to argue with people like you.
I am doing a remake of the style of the map, idc what you class as a remake.

Going out with family now

You're ignorant.

I hate change? I've spammed excrement all over this forum advocating for change. Stop speaking out of your ass. I hate pointless change that wont help the game, or change to something thats good. I personally hate Wobluda, but it's still the most played map in the game. So why the fck would you change the gameplay on it? I admitted your mapping improved, but you're putting it to the wrong use. Even Cuso's reply you selectively read, as you do with most replies. You have the capabilities to help the game, but you're putting it to poor use. Oh well.

Clipz · « **Reply #99 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:56:42 AM »

Jmr it's not a shot at them it's the truth they don't have the experience most mappers do. Omni is still learning he still has yet to have his maps constantly played. I know my Maps are not great if you could put me and cuso as one mapper we would be dt. I know and understand game play but my terrains suck. Cusomans visuals are great but he lacks game play. When I started mapping terrains were crap I have an old school style of mapping.