Author Topic: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest  (Read 23418 times)

Eiii

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2005, 01:29:54 AM »
Um... your quote implies that noobs = realism. What do you mean by that?

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2005, 01:37:02 AM »
Your quote not mine.
You explain.

jitspoe

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2005, 11:20:07 AM »
Let's see if I can explain this better: there are basically two types of newbies -- the players familiar with FPS games but have never played paintball2, and the players who have never played FPS games at all.  I'd say that most new players probably have fair experience with FPS's.  They've probably at least played the Counter-Strike mod or UT2004.

Let's take a look at CS for a moment.  I'm not a huge CS fan, but it's the most popular online FPS for a reason, and while I'm still curious as to what that reason is, it isn't because it's newbie friendly.  In fact, I would even go so far as to say that it's the most newbie-unfriendly FPS game I've ever played.  You have to buy better guns and equipment to be able to kill people more easily.  You have to have money to buy equipment.  You have to kill people to get money.  Argh!  How am I supposed to be able to kill people if I don't have the money to buy better equipment to kill people with to get money to buy better equipment!?  Not to mention the fact that there's no respawning.  Once you've lost in your pistol vs. aug battle (because you couldn't afford a gun), you're out until everybody else is dead or the 5-minute time limit is up.  I'm not saying I like this, and I'm not saying we should make the game like CS.  I'm just saying a game doesn't have to be newbie friendly to be popular.

So we've established that it's not the newbie-friendliness that makes CS popular.  Let's take a look at some of the CS maps, then.  Dust?  Multiple paths.  Dust2?  Multiple paths.  Office? Multiple paths.  Assault?  Multiple paths.  In fact, every last one of the major CS maps has lots of routes and sometimes even multiple locations for various goals.  Hell, lots of servers will even run the same map 24/7.  Why?  Because the design of the map allows for unique gameplay every round.  We need maps like this.  Maps you can play for hours on end and not get bored, as opposed to the boring-after-five-minutes-spray-and-pray-autocockers-in-a-box maps that are running rampant now.

Now what about UT2004?  I'll just say this.  If you have it, load up one of the 1-vs-1 maps.  Notice that it's about 5x's the size of pbcup, a map often played with 10 people.  Do the math: 5x's as many people, 1/5th the volume.  That means we've got like 25x's the player-to-map-volume ratio professional game designers of a popular game feel is appropriate.  In other words, we're cramming way too many people into too small of an area.  It removes many gameplay elements as players might as well just spray -- they're more likely to hit something that way.  There's no sense in using any strategy as the whole thing is just one big clusterf*.

Now, you say these "newbie friendly" maps are good in moderation, but there is no moderation.  Refresh the server list. 3/4 of the servers are running pbcup, theice, or some other crappy, small, 1-path, or autos-in-a-box map.  Now I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but my initial point I planned to make was this:

These small 1-path maps aren't really newbie friendly to the first type of newbie, which I think is the majority.  Newbies with experience in other FPS games may not be able to aim a paintball gun well, apply the proper lead, etc., but they can use strategy learned from other games to get the jump on other players... or can they?  They can't if all the bunkers are transparent!  They can't if the map is so small that there's only like 2 strategic locations and people spray there every round!  They can't if the map is just a box!

The thing I was agreeing with eiii about is that it brings up players wrong.  Players come up thinking that to win the game, you just spray, or that you don't have to think, just shoot whoever's in front of you.  They get in this mentality of playing, and when a good map comes up, they think it sucks because they have no clue how to use strategy and end up getting railed on.  Unfortunately they're the ones that complain the loudest, and pretty soon 9 out of 10 servers have these crappy maps in rotation.  The other players simply sit in silent protest most of the time or move onto another game.  And skilled new players blow off the game completely.  Sad thing is, many players haven't even seen some of the better maps because they're not in rotation on most servers.

Anyway, I have to go.  Sorry if my rambling was incoherent.

Eiii

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2005, 03:38:53 PM »
In case you haven't noticed, we aren't exactly going for realistic right now.
See, we don't want noobs. We want real players.

Okay. You say that those two quotes contradict each other. Those quotes have nothing to do with each other.

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2005, 05:26:56 PM »
Before I read your post Jitspoe I would like to apologize for my last post. After reading it sober I suck.


***EDIT Excellent points, thank you for your time. 

   What set me off was eiii comment about not wanting newbs. Not a good attitude if your wanting new players. You really should put attitudes like that in check.  Not asking you to say or do anything about it. Just privately condem it.

   Moderation, I was referring more to the amount of bunkers on a map, but now that you brought this up. Your point about having fun on a map for hours. Most other players have very little time to play not to  mention the attention span (not I) so they want as much action as can be had. Let them have it in the form of a MOD, name it "Paintball Practice" nuff said . This does two things it shuts people up and it seperates the men from the boys. Do it, there is no other logical way unless you want to competely eliminate more than half of this community from the game they love and a few leet others hate.

  Respawning, this is what sets this game from others apart. If you dont get to respawn you tend to play more careful, it promotes careful thinking, which you seem to adore :) . Alas we do respawn that is a huge selling point to gamers "I dont have to wait that long weeeeee" thus the influx of "bad" maps being played most often. The generally are fast action and a large field of view.

  As of yet there has not been complaint about the server or cheating or admin abuse, this is will stay this way  despite your answer to my next question. 

Can I please be able to pick what ever map I want and if it is one that you deem unfiit allow me to load it but not on the rotation. Despite your anwser I have no problem with denying lame maps when requested, in fact this is the only degrading feeling about this situation is not being able to say yes to really old friendse. Oh well. Again sorry about the late night rant I was a jerk.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2005, 06:13:55 PM by loial21 »

IronFist

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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2005, 08:42:59 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 11:30:13 PM by IronFist »

Termin8oR

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2005, 08:32:42 PM »
Loial I want screenshots of the maps and some player scores PLEASE.
I wanna see how everyone is doing in skill level! Cant Be ME! HeHe

-Termin8oR

jitspoe

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2005, 03:30:53 PM »
"Paintball Practice" ... what would they be practicing, though?  Having a "practice" mod where you'd play box/1-path maps is really the opposite of what you'd want people to be practicing, because there they'd be practicing how to play without thinking.  Spraying the only path into the base with an autococker doesn't really take much practice. :)

I'm not really sure how respawn time correlates to map size as it's the same regardless of the map size, unless you're just saying that because there are respawns, it attracts impatient people.  I think respawns are kind of necessary, though, for CTF style gameplay, just to keep things flowing.  Maybe if a flag capture were only worth 1 point as in CS style gameplay they wouldn't be, but when several points are involved...

Though not all game modes have respawns.  Siege, for example, has no respawns.  I wish there were more siege maps.  In 4-team maps, when your whole team is out, you can't respawn, either.  I wish there were some quality 4-team maps, too.  Of course it's also possible to set elim to 0 and have no respawns in regular ctf, too.

It looks like you're starting a new thread about map requests, so I will address your requested selections there.

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2005, 05:21:53 PM »
What would the point be jump maps?

What would the point be if all the maps are huge traverses in which only a handful of players (my self included) would want to play, and really the only reason I do is because to some one who LIVES FPS there is no such thing as "bad" maps.

The point being what good is a good map if  most players being new to the game or vets don't enjoy them as much as the do pbcub or ice. Most players being an understatement. :)

I really don't understand the biased of a poorly planned map, deal with what you were given and overcome it, don't whine about it eiii ;) and call it ugl, again a players point of view not a mappers. If participation is any indication of what you would call a successful program then surmise  the participation of lately, compaired to last year. This saddens me deeply. I don't care at all what your going to do with this game, I do care that good players are turning away from good maps, because of a lack of attention span.

In your opinion why are not the good maps being played?
 
Why does server after server that have players playing *(which now has become a rarity) requesting bad map after bad map?

I remember the days when you had to wait to get on any server despite the maps playing, I have said this before :( sorry I will go now.

Eiii

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2005, 06:30:57 PM »
Sometimes, the box maps are actually really good. Jakemistake is one of the best box maps I played, and doesn't play like most box maps do.

To answer your question on why the good maps are not being played is because just the nature of this game makes it fast paced. See someone, attack, dodge, until one of you dies.

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2005, 06:54:49 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:16:55 AM by Dirty_Taco »

Eiii

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2005, 07:07:43 PM »
Your cutting into our conversation. BEGONE!

:P

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2005, 10:19:10 PM »
Sometimes, the box maps are actually really good. Jakemistake is one of the best box maps I played, and doesn't play like most box maps do.

To answer your question on why the good maps are not being played is because just the nature of this game makes it fast paced. See someone, attack, dodge, until one of you dies.


Thank you for an honest reply I am truly stunned. Is that really you?

Taco what the hell happened to e3rrt? Untill you fully explain why, dont bother replying.

I miss Bainer, Mental ;(  blitz and y2 happy!!! What are their opinions on good maps?


Just trying to bring instrest back.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 12:58:07 AM by loial21 »

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2005, 01:01:31 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:16:48 AM by Dirty_Taco »

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2005, 04:50:40 PM »
Where are they taco ? Why dont they play public?  I can host a match anytime.

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2005, 09:13:37 PM »
***crickets***

Ok on to my next point, Dear Jitspoe this is more an FYI the server was flooded to crap last night to the point where I had to reconnect. This was after asking COBO to reconnect which he did and might have been the root cause ,who knows. But POD IS POS and that is one reason I decided to help besides my love for you POD and client side proxy cheats suxor.
 

jitspoe

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2005, 10:07:43 PM »
It was flooded as in there were a lot of people or as in it was attacked?

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2005, 08:37:31 PM »
Attacked. I dont ever, ever overflow or pj period. Note I was on RR however not the "work" connection coupled with the fact that I have 5 times the system requirments for Q2 i know when the server is attacked or my modem was flooded on porpuse and with the right info off the server I can tell which. 

Btw is there any way a MAP like JUMP can cause severe server lag.

If it was the server lag then a server reset should be done. These servers can handle anythign q2 has to offer.

jitspoe

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2005, 10:52:59 AM »
What info do you need?  I doubt jump would cause lag -- if any map would, it'd be one of those box-of-autococker maps.

loial21

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Re: Loial's SpraynPray/Run-n-Gun Camp fest
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2005, 06:06:16 PM »
Here ye here ye, Last night Jitspoe whoooped my arse severly, all I have to say is nice zbot usage :) jk gg bud I got a little more repspect for ye. 

You still look like Kid Rock when he was young.