Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Beta / In-Progress Maps => Topic started by: JMR on November 01, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
-
Okay, so I really, really want to do a remake of wobluda_fix. The map has awesome gameplay, but it's standards of appearance are low.
I remade the base area, just to show you what I could do to the whole map. I emailed obi and sent him a message but I have yet to receive a reply to get permission to remake the map :( So, do I have to wait for permission before I can continue making? Or could I get 'community' permission? I didn't notice any form of copyright notice on the wobluda release so...
Anyway, I am re sculpting wobluda and I AM adjusting certain small parts of flow here and there with terrain, I think about my terrain hard. Also, as Rick correctly pointed out, I can ALWAYS go back and change some terrain if the public wants a certain part changed, there will be BETAs, I want you guys to decide how you want it to flow/what parts you think don't go so well. However, like the original wobluda, there will always be somewhere to improve. ALL the proper jumps will work and I will try to maybe make some new ones too. The map may go towards a snowy scene, mixed with grass, to make the ice jump actually more natural and not random.
Here's some screenshots :)
(http://i.imgur.com/ywrSj1e.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NhlvXJF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nSCMvyf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Zqx7ruG.jpg)
-
If you do end up remaking wobluda, make sure to spread out the spawn spots to minimize camping.
-
Make it so you don't randomly stop at the big hill to ice as well.
-
looks really interessting and good.
btw obi aka lalabela is often online at crack the pgp
-
If you do end up remaking wobluda, make sure to spread out the spawn spots to minimize camping.
Yep :) But I also need to make sure the spawns are not TOO different, otherwise gameplay for matches will be bad (if you get a BAD spawn)
looks really interessting and good.
btw obi aka lalabela is often online at crack the pgp
Great, I will look out for him, thanks matze!
Make it so you don't randomly stop at the big hill to ice as well.
Will do
-
Should get you in the mapping committee if you're interested. We actually started a wobluda remake a while back. It's a clean from-scratch version with all the brushes properly aligned and stuff.
-
No, dont remake it! Selda did a good thing with fixing it, thats enough.
-
Should get you in the mapping committee if you're interested. We actually started a wobluda remake a while back. It's a clean from-scratch version with all the brushes properly aligned and stuff.
It would be a great honer and pleasure to be part of the mapping committee!
I am confident with my remake of wobluda, would I have to use the one the committee started already? I work better from scratch.
No, dont remake it! Selda did a good thing with fixing it, thats enough.
Could you give some reasons to why it shouldn't be re-maked? It's one of the most popular matching maps/pub maps, I think the most played maps that look non-appealing to newer players need to be re-maked. Makes the game look more professional.
I will not be altering the layout :) just the appearance.
The classic wobluda gameplay will be exactly the same, jumps and all.
-
First thoughts I HATE wobluda! But this looks nice I'd like to have a chat with you on this JMR I have a few ideas mainly detail ideas.
-
First thoughts I HATE wobluda! But this looks nice I'd like to have a chat with you on this JMR I have a few ideas mainly detail ideas.
Cool, thanks Clipz :) I will be going out in about 2 hours, Maybe PM me them on this forum. :)
-
I'm actually working right now ill be home in three hours probably
-
Why? wobluda is fine.
Fix maps like daylight_b1, insight_b3, zpar_beta11, etc.
-
Why? wobluda is fine.
Fix maps like daylight_b1, insight_b3, zpar_beta11, etc.
I am not fixing wobluda, I'm remaking it :)
Just like when DT remaked sassault.
But after this, I could remake maps like daylight_b1 etc too, to give them a professional look to newbies. (I say to newbies because a lot of experienced players don't mind how maps look, but new players can get put off by non-professional)
-
Well, i think DT remade maps like pforest/sassault basically because these maps had potential, but their gameplay wasnt to the fullest. Wobluda on the other hand has great gameplay and looks fine too. IMHO, it would be better idea to remake macabre, because its gameplay isnt as good as it could be. Or if you want remake suggestion, pls twiling remake, make it happen! That map has so much potential.
Also on the point of remaking something, remaking a map should be more like "you take the way map is played and make new map based on the gameplay", what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain. Have a look at pforest for example, its gameplay is same but the map looks totally diferent, you can recognize it just thanks to the paths. While in your "remake" i dont need to even look at the whole map and clearly say its wobluda. BTW, the reason you can only adjust terrain is a prove that wobluda is fine and doesnt scream "remake me" unlike other maps.
And if you wanna argue that you are only making visual remake, then i am sorry to say that i think you are only wasting time, which you could spend on something more useful (like remaking macabre/twiling/daylight_b1). I think it wont get played much, because it will alter the gameplay too much and people will refuse to play it.
Of course it could work out, but you would have to be rly smart about it and think about many new possible jumps there and if these jumps are good idea or not. Take for example skygliding, simple think but it shifted prolandr gameplay like crazy and made tons of new jumps available, some for the better, some for the worse. So, if you still wanna go for it, be my guest but be prepared that it all might be just waste of time, becuase people wont accept it. I personally dont think its a good idea, but if you do, then good luck there!
-
Wobluda doesn't look that great. The walls are rock, but they're all flat with 90 degree angles. The terrain is wedge shaped. It just doesn't look natural. The point of this type of remake is to keep the gameplay that is already proven and liked by a lot of players and enhance the visuals. It should effectively be a drop-in replacement for the old wobluda. This is the idea of the official maplist. The remakes DT has done have completely changed the maps with new routes and whatnot.
JMR: I've added you to the map committee group. You can take a look at what's already been done and perhaps add your base area in there.
-
Well, i think DT remade maps like pforest/sassault basically because these maps had potential, but their gameplay wasnt to the fullest. Wobluda on the other hand has great gameplay and looks fine too. IMHO, it would be better idea to remake macabre, because its gameplay isnt as good as it could be. Or if you want remake suggestion, pls twiling remake, make it happen! That map has so much potential.
Also on the point of remaking something, remaking a map should be more like "you take the way map is played and make new map based on the gameplay", what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain. Have a look at pforest for example, its gameplay is same but the map looks totally diferent, you can recognize it just thanks to the paths. While in your "remake" i dont need to even look at the whole map and clearly say its wobluda. BTW, the reason you can only adjust terrain is a prove that wobluda is fine and doesnt scream "remake me" unlike other maps.
And if you wanna argue that you are only making visual remake, then i am sorry to say that i think you are only wasting time, which you could spend on something more useful (like remaking macabre/twiling/daylight_b1). I think it wont get played much, because it will alter the gameplay too much and people will refuse to play it.
Of course it could work out, but you would have to be rly smart about it and think about many new possible jumps there and if these jumps are good idea or not. Take for example skygliding, simple think but it shifted prolandr gameplay like crazy and made tons of new jumps available, some for the better, some for the worse. So, if you still wanna go for it, be my guest but be prepared that it all might be just waste of time, becuase people wont accept it. I personally dont think its a good idea, but if you do, then good luck there!
You arguments are quite convincing to me tbh. At that point of view i totally agree with you.
But as JMR want's to say, there could be EVEN MORE potential of the map, if it gets a "new face". (+1 from my side)
Making some more natural terrain without destroying the game-play and maybe even some new details could turn out as an big succes imo.
and i don't think it would be a waste of time for jmr... as far as i know him he really enjoys making maps :)
I think we should gibe this project a go, or wait for some more progress. JMR could upload some screenshots of new parts he made, the community could have a look and could say "yes looks good, keep on going" or give feedback of what could be done better or different.
but thats just my opinion. :)
-
I am not fixing wobluda, I'm remaking it :)
Just like when DT remaked sassault.
DT remakes looks like a whole new map.
The walls are rock, but they're all flat
Like 90% of all pb maps.
Just work on other maps. wobluda_fix is playable and popular. Thats enough.
-
It's popular to who? Newbs? How about the older community that hates it. Make it more appealing maybe they like it?
-
Make it more appealing maybe they like it?
Not possible (for me).
-
You hate wobluda also terrorist? My reason is I hate mid, mid is where action should happen and mid due to ice... You can just jump right through or fall into a sewer full of guess what!!?! Ice!!
-
Congrats on getting on the Map Committee JMR!
I like what you're doing with the map. The original was very plain to look at and didn't really make much sense with the current terrain, which you seem to be doing a great job fixing. Just, when making the different humps in the map, make sure you don't ruin the jumps ;)
-
It's popular to who? Newbs? How about the older community that hates it. Make it more appealing maybe they like it?
Sorry Clipz, but newbs make up most of the paintball community. Nobody has any right to treat noobs with disrespect unless they're camping. (Which unfortunately means that most newbs should be treated with disrespect.)
-
Yes they are a majority, but the older community dictates a lot in the small community.
-
Sorry Clipz, but newbs make up most of the paintball community. Nobody has any right to treat noobs with disrespect unless they're camping. (Which unfortunately means that most newbs should be treated with disrespect.)
Good point.
Nice getting on the map committee JMR!
I hope this map will be good, better than the rest [at least texture wise].
-
Like 90% of all pb maps.
And that's one of the reasons so many people complain about the graphics. Even if it has the best textures in the world, it doesn't matter if the maps are bland and boxy.
-
It's popular to who? Newbs? How about the older community that hates it. Make it more appealing maybe they like it?
I hate wobluda too, but the "newbs" like it.
And that's one of the reasons so many people complain about the graphics. Even if it has the best textures in the world, it doesn't matter if the maps are bland and boxy.
And you cant win with just one map.
Wobluda remake? Yes, but its 2early in my opinion. There are other maps to remake.
But because JMR did it already, just release it.
And then maybe maps from < 2010.
-
Congrats on getting on the Map Committee JMR!
I like what you're doing with the map. The original was very plain to look at and didn't really make much sense with the current terrain, which you seem to be doing a great job fixing. Just, when making the different humps in the map, make sure you don't ruin the jumps ;)
Good point.
Nice getting on the map committee JMR!
Thanks all for your kind words :) It's been an honor.
Anyway, Now I am going to do a bit of quoting.
Well, i think DT remade maps like pforest/sassault basically because these maps had potential, but their gameplay wasnt to the fullest. Wobluda on the other hand has great gameplay and looks fine too. IMHO, it would be better idea to remake macabre, because its gameplay isnt as good as it could be. Or if you want remake suggestion, pls twiling remake, make it happen! That map has so much potential.
Also on the point of remaking something, remaking a map should be more like "you take the way map is played and make new map based on the gameplay", what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain. Have a look at pforest for example, its gameplay is same but the map looks totally diferent, you can recognize it just thanks to the paths. While in your "remake" i dont need to even look at the whole map and clearly say its wobluda. BTW, the reason you can only adjust terrain is a prove that wobluda is fine and doesnt scream "remake me" unlike other maps.
And if you wanna argue that you are only making visual remake, then i am sorry to say that i think you are only wasting time, which you could spend on something more useful (like remaking macabre/twiling/daylight_b1). I think it wont get played much, because it will alter the gameplay too much and people will refuse to play it.
Of course it could work out, but you would have to be rly smart about it and think about many new possible jumps there and if these jumps are good idea or not. Take for example skygliding, simple think but it shifted prolandr gameplay like crazy and made tons of new jumps available, some for the better, some for the worse. So, if you still wanna go for it, be my guest but be prepared that it all might be just waste of time, becuase people wont accept it. I personally dont think its a good idea, but if you do, then good luck there!
I appreciate your long opinion, but on the topic of "what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain.". I highly disagree with, I am majorly improving the appearance of wobluda. I chose wobluda, because I get sick of it being picked in matches so much, due to it's terrible appearance (I even pick it myself, I just wished it looked better).
The reason I chose wob as my first remake is that I know the gameplay is to it's fullest there, I could get hated by the community by making a remake that is different gameplay from the original (worse). So that was the point of me remaking wobluda. I am making everything from scratch too.
I hate wobluda too, but the "newbs" like it.
And you cant win with just one map.
Wobluda remake? Yes, but its 2early in my opinion. There are other maps to remake.
But because JMR did it already, just release it.
And then maybe maps from < 2010.
Wobluda gets picked more than daylight_b1 Etc, it's one of the most popular maps out there as far as matching goes at the moment. This is the whole purpose of me choosing it, I'm not looking to get wobluda played more (it's already played to it's full extend), I am simply trying to improve the visuals as so many people play it. DT's remakes was a terrible example on my part, I think me mentioning DT caused confusion. I am simply (for wobluda) giving it a new, made from scratch "skin", that will give wobluda a new feel - without altering gameplay. This is a different type of remake, I am not remaking the layout.
Maybe this could be the first of a series? If I came up with a catchy tag, I was thinking I could do something like "pbcup_", just because it's an easy way to relate to maps of a similar detail.
A few I had at the top of my head,
"adv_wobluda" (Advanced wobluda)
"imp_wobluda" (Improved wobluda)
"jmr_wobluda" (Okay, this sounds very self-centered, but at least it's semantic, "JMR's remake of Wobluda"
"pro_wobluda" (Professional maps, remade")
then when I have picked a tag... could be
"pro_daylight" Etc
Okay, maybe these are not the best examples, but I think my remakes will 'click' with people if I did this. Also, I wouldn't then be stealing the name "_remake" after everything, I understand that many other mappers in the future may also want to remake the same maps I have remaked - maybe even with a different layout, so I think it would be best if I made a "map" tag.
-
Wobluda doesn't look that great. The walls are rock, but they're all flat with 90 degree angles. The terrain is wedge shaped. It just doesn't look natural. The point of this type of remake is to keep the gameplay that is already proven and liked by a lot of players and enhance the visuals. It should effectively be a drop-in replacement for the old wobluda. This is the idea of the official maplist. The remakes DT has done have completely changed the maps with new routes and whatnot.
Yes, true, but wobluda has decent flow and decent gameplay, unlike other maps. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying JMR should stop, because its totally wrong, no. I am just giving out my opinions so for the next time he decides to remake something so maybe he might choose his next map based on them. It would obviously make no sense to stop now.
I like what skyro said, that it wouldnt be waste of time, because JMR enjoys making maps, heh true. Lets see how this turns out, i am surprised so many people are up for it honestly.
As for the gameplay point, i totally agree with clipz, the part of map with worst gameplay is mid. The gameplay there consists more of no-brain rushing, because its hard to counter main-ice to enemies main-icehigh rushes. If you dont go Icehigh and they rush there, you are pretty much screwed, because now they control your part of a map.
On another point, rushing is basically only option there, because if you dont rush fast enough to see mid and oponents, you totally lose control of the map, because there is so many options where they could have gone, you cant basically guess it. And with that, another problem comes out, there basically 2 options to rush. 1) You go small hump - mid, 2)You go your icehigh, rushing sewers doesnt work, because its too risky, you have to guess where oponents will be and it works only once or twice, because they line it anyway after that. And basehigh is like 1 second slower comparing to jump over small-hump to mid.
EDIT:
I appreciate your long opinion, but on the topic of "what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain.". I highly disagree with, I am majorly improving the appearance of wobluda. I chose wobluda, because I get sick of it being picked in matches so much, due to it's terrible appearance (I even pick it myself, I just wished it looked better).
...
Yea uhm, that was my bad, i kinda didnt read your first post saying that you are only remaking visuals, whch then makes sense to just "copy" and do what i said there. I assumed when i read "remake" that you mean full remake like DT did (and also because you mentioned him :p).
EDIT2:
Wobluda gets picked more than daylight_b1 Etc, it's one of the most popular maps out there as far as matching goes at the moment.
Well that just proves my point, doesnt it? If wobluda is played enough why remake it and not daylight_b1 which would get it more played? In other words, if you remade daylight_b1 instead of wobluda, we would have 2 maps that get picked often :D. I liked how your argument could have backfired, i just had to comment on this :p. On the other hand as a (nub)mapper i understand that some maps are more appealing to remake than others, so yea i get why you choosed wobluda.
-
Yes, true, but wobluda has decent flow and decent gameplay, unlike other maps. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying JMR should stop, because its totally wrong, no. I am just giving out my opinions so for the next time he decides to remake something so maybe he might choose his next map based on them. It would obviously make no sense to stop now.
I like what skyro said, that it wouldnt be waste of time, because JMR enjoys making maps, heh true. Lets see how this turns out, i am surprised so many people are up for it honestly.
As for the gameplay point, i totally agree with clipz, the part of map with worst gameplay is mid. The gameplay there consists more of no-brain rushing, because its hard to counter main-ice to enemies main-icehigh rushes. If you dont go Icehigh and they rush there, you are pretty much screwed, because now they control your part of a map.
On another point, rushing is basically only option there, because if you dont rush fast enough to see mid and oponents, you totally lose control of the map, because there is so many options where they could have gone, you cant basically guess it. And with that, another problem comes out, there basically 2 options to rush. 1) You go small hump - mid, 2)You go your icehigh, rushing sewers doesnt work, because its too risky, you have to guess where oponents will be and it works only once or twice, because they line it anyway after that. And basehigh is like 1 second slower comparing to jump over small-hump to mid.
Well, I personally like the gameplay at mid - it's unique and very up-paced. The fact that you have to rush to mid as fast as you can always keeps us on our toes to come up with positions quickly. On wobluda, if you are on your own, it's very hard, but if you use teamwork (as you already know) it's much easier.
You may find others agree with me, or I may find that I am wrong? From my experience in the past, people seem to like the whole of wobluda's gameplay.
-
EDIT2:Well that just proves my point, doesnt it? If wobluda is played enough why remake it and not daylight_b1 which would get it more played? In other words, if you remade daylight_b1 instead of wobluda, we would have 2 maps that get picked often :D. I liked how your argument could have backfired, i just had to comment on this :p. On the other hand as a (nub)mapper i understand that some maps are more appealing to remake than others, so yea i get why you choosed wobluda.
That didn't backfire, it hardly was in context. Didn't you listen to me when I say the whole point of me making wobluda (which is infact on the next line... :P), is because it gets picked often "This is the whole purpose of me choosing it, I'm not looking to get wobluda played more (it's already played to it's full extend), I am simply trying to improve the visuals as so many people play it."
I find it quite rude as how you say that wobluda Wobluda is actually not 'more appealing to remake than others' at all either. Highly Improving the visuals on a map where the gameplay is very much known, is pretty hard. With daylight, I'd have more freedom to do what I wanted, much more appealing. With wobluda, I have to keep the same jumps available Etc, which can be a hard task.
-
Well, I personally like the gameplay at mid - it's unique and very up-paced. The fact that you have to rush to mid as fast as you can always keeps us on our toes to come up with positions quickly. On wobluda, if you are on your own, it's very hard, but if you use teamwork (as you already know) it's much easier.
You may find others agree with me, or I may find that I am wrong? From my experience in the past, people seem to like the whole of wobluda's gameplay.
I am not saying i dont like it, of course i play wobluda a lot, because its picked so often and i kinda like it. Ye the rushing tacts to have a vision on your oponents is pretty good. But what i rly dont like is this dumb rushin. I think you havent played against any players who do this, because most players who remain in community try to play at least tactical a little, but back in day, there were quite few players who just rushed all the time and sprayed and guess what, it worked, because wobluda's design helped this "strategy" to work.
EDIT:
That didn't backfire, it hardly was in context. Didn't you listen to me when I say the whole point of me making wobluda (which is infact on the next line... :P), is because it gets picked often "This is the whole purpose of me choosing it, I'm not looking to get wobluda played more (it's already played to it's full extend), I am simply trying to improve the visuals as so many people play it."
I find it quite rude as how you say that wobluda Wobluda is actually not 'more appealing to remake than others' at all either. Highly Improving the visuals on a map where the gameplay is very much known, is pretty hard. With daylight, I'd have more freedom to do what I wanted, much more appealing. With wobluda, I have to keep the same jumps available Etc, which can be a hard task.
Well you are saying that you wanna make wobluda better looking so newbies and players in general dont get scared of by it right? And its one of the most picked maps right? Ok. Now lets have a look at daylight_b1. Is it one of the most picked maps? No. So there are basically 2 map (lets say 2 for the simplicity), one that gets played a lot, the other which not, visual wise they are both on the same level (both need improvement). So wouldnt it be better to improve the one which doesnt get played? This was my whole point of posting here btw, i guess i didnt say it right.
Well and still! You have picked wobluda over daylight_b1, despite all the reasoning you just put here. Maybe appealing wasnt used right, i should have "more appealing for YOU", because you obviously prefer to remake wobluda over daylight. So my point stands ;)
-
I am not saying i dont like it, of course i play wobluda a lot, because its picked so often and i kinda like it. Ye the rushing tacts to have a vision on your oponents is pretty good. But what i rly dont like is this dumb rushin. I think you havent played against any players who do this, because most players who remain in community try to play at least tactical a little, but back in day, there were quite few players who just rushed all the time and sprayed and guess what, it worked, because wobluda's design helped this "strategy" to work.
Was this before the ball speed was changed? Maybe that has some reference, I have no idea, I have only been around for 1 year.
EDIT:
I could try to improve this, maybe by adding more cover on main and autococker? I will take gameplay advice, but it's hard to know what "everyone" wants. I remember reading an old thread on wobluda remakes and myers said that the gameplay is fine and useless extra paths will only ruien the gameplay. But I can make minor gameplay changes (adding cover shouldn't hinder it that much)
Also, I read on an old thread that clipz was interested in wobluda being covered in snow. I think this is a great idea as it would make the fit in a lot more!
-
I am not saying i dont like it, of course i play wobluda a lot, because its picked so often and i kinda like it. Ye the rushing tacts to have a vision on your oponents is pretty good. But what i rly dont like is this dumb rushin. I think you havent played against any players who do this, because most players who remain in community try to play at least tactical a little, but back in day, there were quite few players who just rushed all the time and sprayed and guess what, it worked, because wobluda's design helped this "strategy" to work.
EDIT:Well you are saying that you wanna make wobluda better looking so newbies and players in general dont get scared of by it right? And its one of the most picked maps right? Ok. Now lets have a look at daylight_b1. Is it one of the most picked maps? No. So there are basically 2 map (lets say 2 for the simplicity), one that gets played a lot, the other which not, visual wise they are both on the same level (both need improvement). So wouldnt it be better to improve the one which doesnt get played? This was my whole point of posting here btw, i guess i didnt say it right.
Well and still! You have picked wobluda over daylight_b1, despite all the reasoning you just put here. Maybe appealing wasnt used right, i should have "more appealing for YOU", because you obviously prefer to remake wobluda over daylight. So my point stands ;)
My point is that, I am not looking to get daylight picked more yet... it's pointless. Instead pick a map which is VERY popular first, then once that is looking nice, then work on other "Less important" maps.
It's like the official maplist - it wouldn't be there to make maps played more, it would be there to set the standard of the game high for popular maps - which is why I am remaking wobluda, to set the standard high for a very popular map. After wobluda, I will consider you opinion :) I think I could remake daylight next, but IMO wobluda is more important.
-
Daylight would be a horrible map to choose to remake. Its a cheap rip off of pp1.
Im heading off to work now, Ill talk with you later on JMR should be home in about 5 hours.
-
Daylight would be a horrible map to choose to remake. Its a cheap rip off of pp1.
Maybe but it doesn't play like pp1 at all does it?
-
Progress with water/sewer :)
(http://i.imgur.com/QYJP5T6.jpg)
(The lights are temporary)
-
This is gonna be epic. If the community had more people like you, we could remake so many popular maps that don't look good and paintball2 would benefit tremendously.
-
I wanna fu-ck with this water cuz its so hot.
-
I wanna fu-ck with this water cuz its so hot.
LMFAO
-
I wanna fu-ck with this water cuz its so hot.
You're a little too ... Matze to do this. :D
Man, with the screenshots from your remake JMR, this map's gonna be sick.
-
Water looks pretty cool.
Some ideas i had when i saw it:
1)You could add small waterfall at the end (to base) of the tunnel so the water disapears somewhere. (I mean at the end of water, not the tunnel, so the waterfall wouldnt be even possible to see from base, for example hole in the ground like is in oth on base-high). You could cover it with planks so ti doesnt affect gameplay, also you could arrange the planks so they form ramp at the end, so you dont have to make ramp of the ramp.
2)Although, this one would affect gameplay slightly. At the other end of the tunnel (to mid) you could add some fallen planks so they block some lines...now that i think about it, its not that good idea, because it would be harder to make water>mid jump. Well at least something to chew on, i will leave it here.
-
The cave that was once a sewer... now with real lighting...
(http://i.imgur.com/WN1SHI3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5oWLkOp.jpg)
-
Oh my goodness! You [and Clipz] made the sewer look like it's not a sewer!
-
looks really nice!
-
If you use jitspoes textures, you should remake almost every map..
-
If you use jitspoes textures, you should remake almost every map..
If he has enough commitment.
-
Why is in a cave ice?
-
Why is in a cave ice?
Well, I have only two options...
ice or water.
The cave needs to be slippery to allow the same jumps and gameplay for the original wobluda.
Whichever the public wants, I'll do, so ice or water guys?
-
Why is in a cave ice?
Because if hes making this as realistic and as professional as he can ice is needed. YOU CANT SLIDE ON WATER. I've already explained this to jmr and he understood.
-
those lanterns look totally amaze balls... good job
-
those lanterns look totally amaze balls... good job
Yeah who ever had that idea is a genius!
-
jmr: did you look at the map committee version? We already redid the sewers...
-
jmr: did you look at the map committee version? We already redid the sewers...
I really like what he has done to it to he completely honest.
-
Well, the visuals are very different...
Here's what we had:
-
Eww... brown sewer water...
Where are the awesome sewer lights?!!! D:
-
Well, the visuals are very different...
Here's what we had:
JMR's is better. Although that one is still a huge improvement over the original wobluda.
-
I don't get why there is weirdly shaped dirt on the wall, with snow on the ground. :P
-
Remaking the terrain changes the map. The reason the map flows so well is the terrain. Over-doing it will change the flow significantly, even if it appears to be minor details. The way you ramp off of things just works on that map.
I am not a fan of wobluda, but if you're going to change it you can't just add a bunch of terrain changes to make it look nicer. That terrain is what makes the map flow. This map has been probably the most played map across the pub/competitive scene for the last 2 years, and should only be modified visually. This means, nothing should have the chance to alter the game play. Terrain is a HUGE dictator of gameplay, and this terrain alters it a lot.
Also, Wobluda is not a map that needs to be remade. It's played a lot. If could be visually better - but visually implies nothing gameplay wise can change. Focus on a map that has potential to be played, rather than a map that's widely liked. Maybe it's the simplistic nature of Wobluda that makes players like it. It's easy to understand, good flow, good amount of jumps, and decent gameplay. A lot of mappers, namely Cusoman, focus so much on appearance that he forgets gameplay. DT was the only one who managed to have both gameplay and detail in his maps - so please don't alter terrain on Wobluda - even though I don't like the map, it'll turn one of the most played maps in DP into something that may not get played. Improving visuals of a map doesn't always imply people will like it more. Work on a map that gets complaints.
FYI - you want a game to grow? Ignore this argument about what the "old players" want. Those old players are off in college, or having families, lacking time for the game. Promote for the majority, and the majority for the last 2 years likes Wobluda as is. I hate the map, but people love it. Leave it as is. The game isn't at a visual level itself to complain about that map.
EDIT: Another example, the dirt in the sewer on JMR screenshot also changes the map. You hit that, you lose speed. That wasn't part of the original. That detail changes the flow. Slightly, sure, but the sewer being ramped on the sides let you ramp up to avoid a line/get a kill. The unintentional stuff like that added gameplay.
-
Because if hes making this as realistic and as professional as he can ice is needed. YOU CANT SLIDE ON WATER. I've already explained this to jmr and he understood.
You can slide on water with a slippery ground too. Not so much like on ice, but we play DP2, no one cares.
I prefer the dpmc sewer.
-
You can slide on water with a slippery ground too. Not so much like on ice, but we play DP2, no one cares.
I prefer the dpmc sewer.
its JMRs remake so he will take what he prefers
-
JMR what is ur facebook ID???
:D
-
I think you should do it as a new map, honestly your progress is rly good and i kinda wanna see how it ends up. I agree that the changes you are doing are affecting gameplay so its not just visual remake. Sth like wobluda_rev (revisited) might work.
One more thing. the dirt on walls is weirdly shaped i dont see how it could hold on the walls like that in real world :p
-
its JMRs remake so he will take what he prefers
You are a smart guy. I said just my opinion.
dpmc_wobluda would be nice.
-
You are a smart guy. I said just my opinion.
dpmc_wobluda would be nice.
i just said my opinion too.
and thanks for the smart guy thing :*
-
Changing anything terrain related changes the gameplay, making this not purely a visually upgrade of the map. In doing so, you change the current flow of the map. This map is the most widely played map, changing it's current flow could ruin the most played map at the moment.
Anything that alters the gameplay is a remake, and not a fix. And a remake isn't copying the existing map, it's improving the existing map. This is copying the existing, so shouldn't be considered a remake. And it's adjusting the gameplay, so shouldn't be happening. You made it look nicer, but it changed the gameplay in doing so.
-
Okay thanks for all the feedback.
The gameplay will be just as good as the original, if not better - that is my goal, to keep the classic gameplay STYLE of the map, obviously there will be minor variations, but all the jumps will be the same as well as most of the lines :D I am placing the terrain in a way that BENEFITS gameplay.
Also, in the cave, there are all clip brushes, you cannot get stuck on anything at all, basically, I am clipping out the details, so that's all they are - details, then putting clip brushes where the walls would be on the original sewer - same gameplay, but far better experience. This is not to say that there won't be any variation.
Yeah jitspoe, I took a look at them sewers, they don't look as good as a cave imo, + where did the water of them sewers go? Into nowhere? That's not realistic - water randomly vanishing.
I was thinking of placing snow spots along edges etc, to give it a wintry theme based on the feedback I got from clipz. So thus, the ice in the cave is not random.
The cave holds up by the wood, it's just dirt has gradually mounted and fallen down from the sides from all the people bashing into the wall... (hence the crack in the wood).
(http://content.lib.washington.edu/meed/image/185.jpg)
If you saw the map, you'd see that it looks like wood is holding the tunnel up, but dirt has fallen over it :)
-
Myers, although I agree with some of your points, such as the one about people liking Wobluda for its simplicity (the same reason why people like Sunman textures), I think that what JMR is doing is completely worthwhile. If we can have some professional-looking maps on a free game, that would be a huge advantage of having and playing Paintball2 and therefore would attract more players to this game. (And that's exactly what we want, right?)
-
Myers, although I agree with some of your points, such as the one about people liking Wobluda for its simplicity (the same reason why people like Sunman textures), I think that what JMR is doing is completely worthwhile. If we can have some professional-looking maps on a free game, that would be a huge advantage of having and playing Paintball2 and therefore would attract more players to this game. (And that's exactly what we want, right?)
Myers is also saying that terrain could ruin the gameplay - right myers, random terrain can. You gotta ask the question, what is the gameplay? Gameplay is a very broad term, to me, the gameplay of wobluda is it's basic elements, aka, the shape and layout. That's what makes wobluda's classical gameplay. Also, there are people who don't like wobluda as it stands, it's old and a little barren on main, I am gonna give maps like this a new coat of professionalism. Terrain placed in a sensible way can ultimately benefit gameplay. For example, the ramp to base high now gives more cover when you crouch in certain spots, making it far much more tactical.
I am not just doing this for the newbies, I am doing it for the match scene, the match scene is looking tired with some of these maps. Sure, gameplay is great, but tired looking, old looking. New players who join the match scene feel like they've joined an old-people's club - I know that's how I felt when I joined, with some of the "older" maps. So I am gonna use this to my advantage and create a whole new map series. to my own style. dpmc_ wouldn't be for me to use, as I am working on these maps individually to my own style, however, I am doing this to benefit the community and user experience in general. I don't feel that the mapping committee has to work on a single map together, but just work on making good maps for the game, that are top notch professional. Also, by my experience, working as a team on a single map doesn't always benefit. However, working as a team on ideas and improvements is what I think counts. ;)
-
I just saw the map and the stuff what's done so far in-game.
It is really like the wobluda just more professional... and so far i can't see any changes of the game-play.
It's gonna turn out as a very good map imo.
Good job JMR! :)
-
Yeah jitspoe, I took a look at them sewers, they don't look as good as a cave imo, + where did the water of them sewers go? Into nowhere? That's not realistic - water randomly vanishing.
The map committee version didn't have water... did you look at the latest one?
So thus, the ice in the cave is not random.
I think the problem is that it looks like snow, and it doesn't really make sense that it would snow in a tunnel.
The cave holds up by the wood, it's just dirt has gradually mounted and fallen down from the sides from all the people bashing into the wall... (hence the crack in the wood).
If you saw the map, you'd see that it looks like wood is holding the tunnel up, but dirt has fallen over it :)
I understand what you're going for. The problem is building that out of blocky brushes kinda makes it look less realistic, even though you have more detail.
-
It's OK to change the gameplay a little; however, try to do that only on spots that the community agrees should be fixed.
Maybe you should try to make the snow look a little more like ice for the purpose of realism. Look at the partially ice tunnel in Carpathian; that's what would look the best in that tunnel.
If you plan on doing a bunch of remakes like this, you should also do wipa, daylight, and banliue.
-
I disagree with wipa daylight and banliue, wipa is a cluster, daylight is horrible too much ice and babliue is not played plus its a ugly map :)
-
The map committee version didn't have water... did you look at the latest one?
I think the problem is that it looks like snow, and it doesn't really make sense that it would snow in a tunnel.
I understand what you're going for. The problem is building that out of blocky brushes kinda makes it look less realistic, even though you have more detail.
What is that on the ground then, looked like slushy water from the screenshots.
The point is that there was water that had frozen over time, to become ice. But I agree, I will try to make it look more like ice :)
Maybe the screenshots don't do my wall work justice, when you see it as passing by, it looks really nice and from the comments of a lot of people, they think it looks much better. :)
By the way, I will give full permission for jitspoe to use my map remakes with the game, so he has rights to use my maps however he pleases.
-
Made the ice look more like... well... ice :)
(http://i.imgur.com/EcEjB1x.jpg)
-
JMR: You don't understand gameplay then based off your reply to me. Gameplay isn't made by a map as a whole. Gameplay is made by every little aspect of it, that creates the map as a whole. Changing terrain changes aspects of the movement, which changes the gameplay. I'm judging it off your screenshots, and I can already see obvious spots of changed gameplay. Just the way you hit the ground is different, and that changes the gameplay.
Your dirt on the ground of the ice is an example of what changes it. Also, it's a sewer, don't make it dirt. You're changing it to something it's not.
Your visual improvements ARE changing the gameplay of the map. The gameplay of this map works, your terraining isn't improving the map, because it changes the map.
Also, changing visuals DOES NOT HELP THE COMPETITIVE/MATCH SCENE. The match scene is accustomed to the visuals of this game. They've stuck around for other reasons.
Your mapping as a whole has improved, but if you're going to fix a map, do not change it. Try to work on an older map, and do a remake that CHANGES the map. Changing visually is too hard, cause the smallest of changes can influence the gameplay negatively. In a map with good gameplay, it's not worth changing anything.
Please do not continue on this map in this way of "changing", because your current changes adjust the flow of the map, which adjust gameplay. Your mapping has improved, work on a map with potential to become better - or a map that that isn't as widely played.
-
JMR: You don't understand gameplay then based off your reply to me. Gameplay isn't made by a map as a whole. Gameplay is made by every little aspect of it, that creates the map as a whole. Changing terrain changes aspects of the movement, which changes the gameplay. I'm judging it off your screenshots, and I can already see obvious spots of changed gameplay. Just the way you hit the ground is different, and that changes the gameplay.
Your dirt on the ground of the ice is an example of what changes it. Also, it's a sewer, don't make it dirt. You're changing it to something it's not.
Your visual improvements ARE changing the gameplay of the map. The gameplay of this map works, your terraining isn't improving the map, because it changes the map.
Also, changing visuals DOES NOT HELP THE COMPETITIVE/MATCH SCENE. The match scene is accustomed to the visuals of this game. They've stuck around for other reasons.
Your mapping as a whole has improved, but if you're going to fix a map, do not change it. Try to work on an older map, and do a remake that CHANGES the map. Changing visually is too hard, cause the smallest of changes can influence the gameplay negatively. In a map with good gameplay, it's not worth changing anything.
Please do not continue on this map in this way of "changing", because your current changes adjust the flow of the map, which adjust gameplay. Your mapping has improved, work on a map with potential to become better - or a map that that isn't as widely played.
Although that is your opinion, there are many that think that this remake will make wobluda much better. It's a remake myers, it's not a sewer any longer, clipz (who is in the mapping committee) had an idea of making it a cave instead, so I listened to feedback and did so.
There are clip brushes inside of the cave that make the water the same shape of the sewer, so basically, the gameplay exactly the same...
As I said, there will be slight variation, but as the tactical side of gameplay, the idea of wobluda, water leading to mid, ice rush, 2 flags with a dirt bd Etc, will be the same :)
I aint 'fixing' wobluda. I am remaking it into a different style to look better. :)
-
It doesn't matter if everything's not real... it's DP... not the best game in terms of making things real anyways.
-
If you're remaking then don't work on the existing map with visual upgrades. Visual upgrades isn't remaking. You're attempting to fix it, and in turn changing the gameplay. It's a waste of time, and not improving anything.
-
If you're remaking then don't work on the existing map with visual upgrades. Visual upgrades isn't remaking. You're attempting to fix it, and in turn changing the gameplay. It's a waste of time, and not improving anything.
Uhm, no... I made everything from scratch so far man. All I am working off is screenshot reference of the original, combined with checking the scales.... Also, many people think I am improving the map, by improving the style. The gameplay probably WILL be better too, giving more variation to players with detailed terrain.
-
Oh the original remake of the sewer definitely looks more realistic, and would be great to speed through due to the lights, and JMR's looks more christmasy and cartoony, I cant decide what I like best. Is there a way to take ideas from both? I LOVE the lighting in both. Tricky.
-
honestly i wouldnt mind if wobludas gameplay changed as of right now i feel like i could play wob in my sleep
-
^ That's why new maps are better to be made.
JMR: You say this, but everytime you release a map you also say EVERYONE loves it. I'm curious who everyone is. Cause it never truly seems to be everyone. I think changing existing maps significantly is stupid. If this map is so widely played, then anything changing the gameplay is counter productive. Those saying it's BETTER to have it changed, makes no sense. They haven't matched on this new "slightly changed" version, so they don't know if it's better. They're supporting your mapping cause its your friends.
If you have such great ideas, and such talented mapping, as you seem to think, then put it towards making a map that can get played, since you've yet to achieve that. Rather than assuming you're improving a map that has actually succeeded to get played by the community.
-
I disagree with MyeRs; I think that what he is doing is very productive. However, JMR, you should probably release Overhang as final. There are no bugs that I nor anyone else can identify on that map, so you might as well do the final release. That way, people will add it to their servers and you will have made a good contribution to the game.
-
New mappers today are at such a disadvantage, whats the last map released to make it, pub or match? I released nonturno_b1 & rallyr_b1 a year ago, not being biased but those are the only two maps I have seen made recently that get play time. Probably because I was a known mapper and they are simple and easy maps to play. This remake can work, just make sure the game play doesn't change. It can change some what but not a ton. I honestly hate the mid game play on this map that I would like to see get bettered but it would be really difficult to do and not worth trying imo.
-
Well, you can do whatever you want, and people can make up their minds on whether or not they want to play it.
Some stuff to consider:
- Don't change flat terrain for sake of making it bumpy. Bumpy terrain like you showed in your first picture just looks like a problem. Those spots used to be flat and ugly, and now they are bumpy and ugly, because they are a bunch of triangles in a square area. Running up and down the main ramp is gonna be weird.
- Watch out for all the stuff you're adding in the sewer, make sure you clip brush all your new geometry to make sure the original movements are the same.
Alot of what MyeRs and others are saying has nothing to do with whether or not your mapping is cool, or if it looks nice, or if it will/will not play well. He's saying any change you make to the geometry is going to change the map. You won't move around the same way, therefore it won't play the same way, therefore this is remake and not a visual upgrade. If it is a remake, you should take the time to change the maps' scale, pacing, and paths so that its a completely new map. Otherwise your changes need to make sure the critical sections of the map remain UNTOUCHED. This is what most of the detractors are getting at.
At some point, you said you wanted to do for wobluda what was done to sassult vs pbcup_sassault. Those maps play insanely differently. Keep that in mind :)
Screenshots look good so far, definitely a visual improvement. Have fun continuing. I'm attaching a screenshot of the sewers cuz you can't leave the walls with the harsh terrain transitions you have...it looks weird. Jitspoe was hinting at this on an earlier version as well, but it still looks weird. Soften that terrain! Good luck :)
- Cusoman
-
I can't see your screenshot :(
-
Thanks cusoman for the reply.
Spent some time working on softening.
(http://i.imgur.com/haZsOPl.jpg)
Also, there are clip brushes all along the walls, making it impossible to get blocked :)
@Myers, could you please stop putting words into my mouth. I didn't say "everyone", it's impossible to please everyone, especially pleasing people who don't actively play anymore ;) ;) " there are many that think that this remake will make wobluda much better."
-
I disagree with MyeRs; I think that what he is doing is very productive. However, JMR, you should probably release Overhang as final. There are no bugs that I nor anyone else can identify on that map, so you might as well do the final release. That way, people will add it to their servers and you will have made a good contribution to the game.
Thanks baseballdude, but the more I look at overhang, the more I regret making it :) my mapping is much cleaner now, overhang doesn't reflect my mapping skill anymore. I can't see the point of fixing up my past maps that no one wants to play. The only map I have had a final release on is village and village_koth :) newbies really love koth version especially, normally always players online.
-
Wait... village is final? There was never a beta feedback thread for it... last I checked, there were a bunch of texture issues and other things I was going to provide feedback on, but you never made a thread about it...
Overhang is pretty good, and there were only a couple minor flow issues. If you don't want to finish it, maybe the map committee could help out?
-
Wait... village is final? There was never a beta feedback thread for it... last I checked, there were a bunch of texture issues and other things I was going to provide feedback on, but you never made a thread about it...
I had enough feedback from people ingame etc, there was no need to make a thread, I fixed the mis-alignments then final released it. It's now on a server 24/7 see :) I asked skyro, mission, omni, wasp, paradead, matzemr and lum1xan, they pointed out what they wanted improved and I did it. I then asked them to try to find misalignments, then I fixed them :)
-
I asked skyro, mission, omni, wasp, paradead, matzemr and lum1xan
Yep, the most experienced and intelligent group of people. Now I understand who all the people who "love" your ideas are.
Do something productive, this isn't productive. Also, pay attention to Cusoman's post cause it's the most relevant in this thread.
-
Yep, the most experienced and intelligent group of people. Now I understand who all the people who "love" your ideas are.
Do something productive, this isn't productive. Also, pay attention to Cusoman's post cause it's the most relevant in this thread.
Post something productive, this isn't productive.
Lol, them people are some of the most active currently playing the game, so yeah... kinda more intelligent that you at your current inactive state on this game :D:D
You need a higher post count or something? Didn't you see my reply to cusoman and what I did? Probably not, you throw out things from your mouth that you don't even use in full context, then you put that junk in other people's mouths, just like you did with "everyone". ;)
-
I'm sorry I have to agree with Myers the people you listed know NOTHING about mapping you should have made a public formal release
-
I'm sorry I have to agree with Myers the people you listed know NOTHING about mapping you should have made a public formal release
Can't believe you'd actually judge them to that extent wow. You and myers aren't as intelligent as you claim to be, judging us like that.
skyro and omni are great mappers, they know a lot more about mapping than you think! Skyros map will be released soon and it will blow you guys away :)
I didn't care much for village, I just wanted newbies to have a new 24/7 server and wanted to have fun making it - which I did. No need for a release on the forums, because it was just a fun- non-serious project for my servers alone :)
We are getting so off topic here. I don't care whether you agree with myers or not, myers should know better. It's up to ME who I listen to. I don't give a nade about what myers has to say, he's a hater as you put it originally clipz :)
-
EDIT: Not worth raging at someone who considers people who have never been in the competitive scene to understand gameplay of competitive scene maps l0l. You didnt even have DP downloaded when Wobluda was released, and its a new map.
1) You have yet to make a map that the competitive scene has used, and Wobluda is a widely used map. You can't say you're improving the gameplay, otherwise you'd understand what it takes to make a map that gets played.
2) You're not visually fixing the map, as you claim, since, as cuso and I both said, you've changed the gameplay with how you've changed terrain and everything. Ok, that's fine.
3) You claim to be remaking the map (without permission), yet, as cuso said, a remake isn't the exact same map with minor terrain/visual changes. A remake isn't copying the exact scale.
So with points 2/3, it leads me to wonder what exactly you're doing? You're not successfully remaking the map, but you're not fixing either. Since you're adjusting gameplay (possible for the better or worse, but given its the most played map for the last 2 years I don't see how it could positively affect gameplay), but you're not changing the map itself.
----------------
If you want to remake the map, then go remake it. If you want to visually fix it, then visually fix it. But what you're doing is an in between, which is the WORST option. Take Wobluda ideas, improve on it, remake the map. Add something different. Or, fix all the visual problems in the map, make it appear nicer. Don't change the visuals so much that it changes the gameplay, then call it a remake.
------------
EDIT2: In reply to "they are great mappers" -- Great mappers, lol. DT is the only GREAT mapper to play this game. Cusoman is probably the second best mapper to play the game. Then there's average mappers, such as Clipz, L!nk, Obi, and some more who have made many "good" maps, but only a few that actually get played. And then there's the people you listed, who have yet to make higher skilled maps, or maps that have been picked up competitively. That's the problem with every newer generation (mine included) of this game, everyone gets arrogant so quickly thinking they're top shet. No. You guys aren't good mappers. You're improving, but you're not there yet.
-
Alright myers, your opinion over-rides everyone elses of course, your opinion, coz ur old and all that, over-rides skryo's, omni's, lukip's, mission's opinions?
I have agreed with cuso's reply, yet you still continue to discuss it, I don't get it.
It seems clearly that you hate my maps and me in general. You are a selfish hater myers, that's all you'll ever be to me :D ;)
I will stop my remake if this junk continues, life's too short to argue with people like you.
P.S
"New mappers today are at such a disadvantage, whats the last map released to make it, pub or match? I released nonturno_b1 & rallyr_b1 a year ago, not being biased but those are the only two maps I have seen made recently that get play time. Probably because I was a known mapper and they are simple and easy maps to play."
-simple as, just because they don't get played, doesn't mean we don't have the intelligence or the skill and it doesn't judge the map either. :P People only pick maps they know dude:)
-
-simple as, just because they don't get played, doesn't mean we don't have the intelligence or the skill and it doesn't judge the map either. :P People only pick maps they know dude:)
That's stupid. People pick good maps. How did other good maps get into the game and actively played? Not many people can make gameplay work, even Cusoman cannot make good gameplay in the majority of his maps. A lot of the time, the mapper doesn't even know the gameplay would work out as well as it does. But, I guarantee if DT came back and made a map, it would get played. He's a GREAT mapper. Do not classify omni and whoever else as great mappers.
You guys do lack the skill to call yourselves great mappers. And you lack experience in the game to truly understand gameplay. And you lack skill in the game to make hard jumps. That's a huge problem with newer mappers - although their BSP skill is good, their game skill/experience isn't. Jumps are forced, maps don't flow.
You haven't agreed with Cuso's, and you haven't responded to my posts. You respond to parts you want.
Just answer this: If it's a remake - why are you copying the map with slight visual upgrades? If it's a fix, why are you doing stuff that can change gameplay? -- As I wrote, go for it, do a remake, but if you do - actually remake it. If you want to fix it, go for it, but if you do - don't change the gameplay. That's been my complaint since the start, and you've yet to respond to it.
-
That's stupid. People pick good maps. How did other good maps get into the game and actively played? Not many people can make gameplay work, even Cusoman cannot make good gameplay in the majority of his maps. A lot of the time, the mapper doesn't even know the gameplay would work out as well as it does. But, I guarantee if DT came back and made a map, it would get played. He's a GREAT mapper. Do not classify omni and whoever else as great mappers.
You guys do lack the skill to call yourselves great mappers. And you lack experience in the game to truly understand gameplay. And you lack skill in the game to make hard jumps. That's a huge problem with newer mappers - although their BSP skill is good, their game skill/experience isn't. Jumps are forced, maps don't flow.
You haven't agreed with Cuso's, and you haven't responded to my posts. You respond to parts you want.
Just answer this: If it's a remake - why are you copying the map with slight visual upgrades? If it's a fix, why are you doing stuff that can change gameplay? -- As I wrote, go for it, do a remake, but if you do - actually remake it. If you want to fix it, go for it, but if you do - don't change the gameplay. That's been my complaint since the start, and you've yet to respond to it.
it is stupid :) people only pick maps they know now days. Back in the 'old' days, they used to try new things, now people like you, hate change :D
life's too short to argue with people like you.
I am doing a remake of the style of the map, idc what you class as a remake.
Going out with family now :)
-
it is stupid :) people only pick maps they know now days. Back in the 'old' days, they used to try new things, now people like you, hate change :D
life's too short to argue with people like you.
I am doing a remake of the style of the map, idc what you class as a remake.
Going out with family now :)
You're ignorant.
I hate change? I've spammed excrement all over this forum advocating for change. Stop speaking out of your ass. I hate pointless change that wont help the game, or change to something thats good. I personally hate Wobluda, but it's still the most played map in the game. So why the fck would you change the gameplay on it? I admitted your mapping improved, but you're putting it to the wrong use. Even Cuso's reply you selectively read, as you do with most replies. You have the capabilities to help the game, but you're putting it to poor use. Oh well.
-
Jmr it's not a shot at them it's the truth they don't have the experience most mappers do. Omni is still learning he still has yet to have his maps constantly played. I know my Maps are not great if you could put me and cuso as one mapper we would be dt. I know and understand game play but my terrains suck. Cusomans visuals are great but he lacks game play. When I started mapping terrains were crap I have an old school style of mapping.
-
No JMR you should not stop this remake just because 1, maybe 2 people don't agree with it. You have far more supporters than that and most of your supporters are the ones actively playing right now. Your adversaries are mostly the "experienced" players who have yet to play on a single pub in 2013. (maybe I'm exaggerating on that one.) the point is that this is a very productive use of your time and this is just what the game needs.
However, to comply with what Clipz and Myers are both saying, please don't change gameplay.
-
Why should we play in pubs? It's not fun the skill gap is tremendously far apart. It's only fun playing more experienced players. We play in pubs then new players rage quit, we don't need that to happen in this game.
I never said don't do this map, I don't mind the way it looks i do agree the triangles on the hill may even look worse then a flat terrain though.
-
I'm sorry I have to agree with Myers the people you listed know NOTHING about mapping you should have made a public formal release
For that map, it matters none what the competitive, experienced players think. JMR made it for noobs to enjoy, and guess what? Noobs enjoy it.
-
For that map, it matters none what the competitive, experienced players think. JMR made it for noobs to enjoy, and guess what? Noobs enjoy it.
Wobluda is the most played competitive map in the game. Which is why I'm complaining about changed gameplay. But as you wrote above, "dont change the gameplay" - that's been my argument all along. I've wrote many times that he should go ahead and do it BUT - if its a visual upgrade, don't change the gameplay (best solution, will guarantee his hard work pays off) -- if its a remake then don't do such minor changes - actually REMAKE it.
Also, don't say this BS about pubbing. Pubbing means nothing, cause define pubbing? Speed server? Jump servers? 60s Resp pubs? PGP pubs? Well, if we're talking about how DP is intended to be played, only 60s Resp public servers matter. And as a matter of fact, I pub DAILY, and play in jump servers daily as well. Don't say stuff you don't know. I quit on the competitive scene cause it was too easy, I get more challenge in a pub. But yes, I still play ony public servers daily.
-
This argument has gone on too long I agree that the maps visuals shouldn't affect gameplay AT ALL, for the simple reason that a map that has been created should remain the same and remakes should add something new gameplay-wise, I still think this is a good thing though, getting newbies to stick around so they can be intergrated Into the competitive scene is just as if not more important and most people who see wobluda for the first time will most likely be thinking what the hell is this rubbish, the maps need to look more respectable.
For the record: I don't classify myself as a great mapper, I think my opinions matter somewhat in terms of technical chanes needed buy whateverlike its stated above I have the technical skill but I don't understand gameplay. And that does not reflect in my current maps either.
-
For that map, it matters none what the competitive, experienced players think. JMR made it for noobs to enjoy, and guess what? Noobs enjoy it.
Yeah news enjoy it because they are clueless on what a good map contains. If it were up to the newbs we would be playing Italy, ub cliffs and shazam33 24/7. Then they find out what the match scene is someone picks a normal map like castle1 or Renoir and they have half a clue what's going on. This is just another reason why we need a map list.
-
This argument has gone on too long I agree that the maps visuals shouldn't affect gameplay AT ALL, for the simple reason that a map that has been created should remain the same and remakes should add something new gameplay-wise, I still think this is a good thing though, getting newbies to stick around so they can be intergrated Into the competitive scene is just as if not more important and most people who see wobluda for the first time will most likely be thinking what the hell is this rubbish, the maps need to look more respectable.
That's the point, he's not remaking the map - he's visually upgrading it - but in a manner that changes the gameplay. Even slight changes can change the gameplay. And that bothers me - but I also don't see server owners putting this on over the original Wobluda, meaning some servers will/wont have this version, causing MORE confusion for new players. Unless it's universally agreed upon, not all servers will run this version, as its not a real remake but it changes gameplay.
-
Yes it should be one or the other, a remake like pforest to pbcup_pforest or JUST visual upgrades with no affect to gameplay. But it does need upgrading visually there is no question it's not a problem for people matching but for newbies it looks so unprofessional. It's not that bad considering the game is completely free and the download is so small but we may as well work with what we have and not rely on old bad looking maps such as ones like Wobluda.
Also what happens if obi is against this does he get a say? Either way I'm glad someone is doing something about it, and I hope that other maps get remade as well.
-
Even if obi says no it's not like he copywrote the map. There is nothing he can literally do to stop JMR from redoing it. As long as he doesn't change the way the map flows it shouldn't matter. He can use a ton of clip brushes in the sewer to prevent the change of game play.
-
I say JMR remake, fix, flip, or whatever you are going to do with the map and then release it so we can give you PROPER feedback based off of game play. People are judging the map by screenshots, I would rather judge it by actually playing on it. (If there is a bsp file in the thread, I missed it.) Myers must be the community spokesperson or something but he’s not qualified. Clipz you don't like it when people bash your maps so it’s only right to give respect to other mappers that is at least trying. If they want to think they are pro mappers so be it. Maybe they are, I haven't seen any of their work, so I won’t judge. Kind of off topic, I love the pubs as well as the matching scene. There needs to be some connection between the two or this game will keep declining. The “old school” guys should try to embrace the “noobs”. Too bad newer players get flamed away by most of the active/competitive players.
-
I haven't disrespected this map what so ever mays, I've actually helped jmr and gave him pointers. I like the idea of the remake and I completely support him doing it. I'm just saying dont change how the map flows. I've seen his progress and tested it with him. I like how this looks besides the ramp out of spawn.
-
I haven't disrespected this map what so ever mays, I've actually helped jmr and gave him pointers. I like the idea of the remake and I completely support him doing it. I'm just saying dont change how the map flows. I've seen his progress and tested it with him. I like how this looks besides the ramp out of spawn.
I saw that much, I was talking about the comments made about the mappers. Even though it wasn't very harsh, They are still mappers and to pretty much tell them that their efforts are for nothing or their opinions mean nothing, I think, is wrong. As a mapper help them improve not tell them they're not good enough. We need more of that in this community.
-
Omni is the only one in that group that I know maps. He was saying the others approved and gave feedback when infact most probably can't make a basic map. I'm all for helping people, I'm even going to learn bsp, unfortunately. Because quark is from prehistoric times just like myself :) lol.
-
Mays: Official spokesperson? Sorry, I didn't realize it's a forum, you know, a place you put your opinion. I am not putting down any mappers, I'm pointing out flaws in some peoples maps.
1) It's been clear thing that you cannot remake someone elses map without their permission. He's still doing it.
2) This is the most active map in the game, he's asking for feedback, so I'm giving my feedback. Which is: If you're going to remake it, then REMAKE IT, change the map like a remake should be. If you're going to visually improve the map (which is the better option) then DONT do anything that can change the gameplay (which you have). Also, as Cusoman said, his terrain change is just random.
Oh well, people never read full posts, yet reply with full generalizations.
-
JMR, just keep workin' and we'll give you some real feedback when you release the map to the public.
-
I say JMR remake, fix, flip, or whatever you are going to do with the map and then release it so we can give you PROPER feedback based off of game play. People are judging the map by screenshots, I would rather judge it by actually playing on it. (If there is a bsp file in the thread, I missed it.) Myers must be the community spokesperson or something but he’s not qualified. Clipz you don't like it when people bash your maps so it’s only right to give respect to other mappers that is at least trying. If they want to think they are pro mappers so be it. Maybe they are, I haven't seen any of their work, so I won’t judge. Kind of off topic, I love the pubs as well as the matching scene. There needs to be some connection between the two or this game will keep declining. The “old school” guys should try to embrace the “noobs”. Too bad newer players get flamed away by most of the active/competitive players.
I agree. Let JMR finish the map, he can always change some of the terrain in the future if it does muck up gameplay. It's not the end of the world guys.
-
JMR should be allowed to finish his map if he wants to. If you don't like the gameplay/flow of the map, then don't play it! There's other wobludas. :D
-
JMR should be allowed to finish his map if he wants to. If you don't like the gameplay/flow of the map, then don't play it! There's other wobludas. :D
The problem is we don't want 10 wobludas, I've talked to jitspoe on this exact quote. He wants one, not two not three. Which ever Wobluda is best once the official list comes out gets played. Not saying it wont be this one. Not saying it will either.
-
The problem is we don't want 10 wobludas, I've talked to jitspoe on this exact quote. He wants one, not two not three. Which ever Wobluda is best once the official list comes out gets played. Not saying it wont be this one. Not saying it will either.
So we gotta pick one before 2016? er what?
Oh well, people never read full posts, yet reply with full generalizations.
Get to the point, then. Nobody's trying to read yo essays.
P.S. Maybe if you were top 20, we'd be interested in what you have to say, mYerS.
-
Before I continue with replying to this thread, let me give some pointers. If anyone makes a post, ignoring these pointers, I will simply disregard considering that poster's opinion. So if you don't get a reply, you know why ;)
1) My terrain is not random at all, although some of it may seem random, it's in natural fact not, I put a lot of time into terrain. Spent a good 3 hours on that wobluda hill from spawn, constantly adjusting it to suit gameplay. I ditched in part of it to allow you to crouch and shoot past, yet remain in cover. Adding a new section to the hill to ADD to gameplay, making it better. I understand that adding to gameplay isn't always better, but I actually put thought into it and I can always go back to change it.
2) I KNOW gameplay will change, but your definition is by far to the extreme. I am talking about the general IDEA of wobluda, not the GENERAL terrain. For example, the slippery path that brings you up to mid/can slip down to get to 2nd - that's an idea. These paths only work well, if they are to the right scale so that's when it comes to comparing my map to the original wobluda.
3) The mapping committee actually progressed with a remake and got no permission from oBi whatsoever. Taking this logic, they were fine in doing this, oBi had no forms of copyright what-so-ever. Also, I have asked NUMEROUS people whether I should continue even without permission, they said yes, including clipz himself.
4) Idc what you class as a remake, but here's what I am doing, I failed to express what I am doing in the OP, so here's exactly what I am doing. I am re sculpting wobluda and I AM adjusting certain small parts of flow here and there with terrain, I think about my terrain hard. Also, as Rick correctly pointed out, I can ALWAYS go back and change some terrain if the public wants a certain part changed, there will be BETAs, I want you guys to decide how you want it to flow/what parts you think don't go so well. However, like the original wobluda, there will always be somewhere to improve. ALL the proper jumps will work and I will try to maybe make some new ones too. The map may go towards a snowy scene, mixed with grass, to make the ice jump actually more natural and not random.
5) What feedback I want. I don't want any of that myers ego, non-productive feedback. All you can currently give feedback on is the visuals :) Just as cusoman did, I am currently working on softening the tunnel to make it look a lot better. I will want gameplay feedback when I start publishing bsp files, so for now, visual feedback only please :) Thank you.
This thread has become very off-topic in some ways, but to clarify one last thing, Omni and skyro have the technical knowledge of mapping to give me honest, good feedback, that's all I was arguing. It's not like I was asking them primary because they are my friends.
-
1) Nobody finds anything in the maps they create to be "random" - cause they have a purpose for it. This doesn't mean it's not random. But once it's released and people can run around in it, you'll get real feedback to it. But from the screenshots, it does look random.
2) I think if you're doing anything to change gameplay, then you should do more than visuals/terrain. There's certainly other things in Wobluda (path wise) that can be improved. There's a reason this map is loved or hated. If you truly want to make an impact - make it so everyone will love it. The people who "hate" the map isn't a cause of the visuals - it's the mid. Find a way to fix that, rather than just trying to make it look better. If you're going to spend the time do work on this, go all out and actually improve everything about the map.
3) I know of some people who got told not to remake maps without permission before, that being said I think it's stupid. Let's be real, most maps are inspired from something without permission. Remaking maps should be allowed as frequently as you want, and if the maps better it'll get played. But it's a waste of time to do if it's not a real remake.
4) I'm aware of what you're doing, and I think it's a waste unless you seek to fix the problems for those who hate the map (which I do). Terrain/Visuals helps new players, cause it looks nicer. Sure. But, the mid of that map could use some serious reworking. As I said before, people love or hate it.
5) You refused to accurately respond to my posts till now, you brought it as off topic as myself. I have an ego, you're ignorant. Get over it. My criticism is still more helpful than 90% of what people in this community give. None of my posts about maps have anything ego-related, my posts in other sections do. I'm not a good mapper, I've made a few average/below average maps, so I have no reason to be arrogant about it.
----
As for Omni/Skyro - I said they aren't great mappers, and they aren't experienced to "know" gameplay. But, you've considered yourself a good mapper when you released your first map(s), saying they were great. Look at them now, compare them to your current maps. You've improved. But compare your current ones to DT, and there's still a lot of room for improvement. Same with many mappers. Stay humble, and you get humble feedback.
-
1) Nobody finds anything in the maps they create to be "random" - cause they have a purpose for it. This doesn't mean it's not random. But once it's released and people can run around in it, you'll get real feedback to it. But from the screenshots, it does look random.
Again, I said 'although it may seem random'...'put a lot of thought and time into it'. My point is, you should't be giving feedback on what you think that terrain will do to gameplay, you should do that later. You have contradicted yourself here, 'real feedback' is all I want.
2) I think if you're doing anything to change gameplay, then you should do more than visuals/terrain. There's certainly other things in Wobluda (path wise) that can be improved. There's a reason this map is loved or hated. If you truly want to make an impact - make it so everyone will love it. The people who "hate" the map isn't a cause of the visuals - it's the mid. Find a way to fix that, rather than just trying to make it look better. If you're going to spend the time do work on this, go all out and actually improve everything about the map.
Again, totally not understanding my point. I am not the best in explaining things, but you clearly LOVE to state the obvious to make it out as if you are actually contributing to that 'real feedback' :D ;) If you talk to clipz, he'll tell you himself that I have been disguising mid with him and asking him why he doesn't like it. I will try to improve gameplay, but keep the idea of wobluda the same... Why do I have to repeat myself? Have I explained it badly? If I have, then how is it others can understand? meh, nevertheless, it's annoying having to repeat myself to someone so 'legendary'.
3) I know of some people who got told not to remake maps without permission before, that being said I think it's stupid. Let's be real, most maps are inspired from something without permission. Remaking maps should be allowed as frequently as you want, and if the maps better it'll get played. But it's a waste of time to do if it's not a real remake.
Some maps are there to be left with, for example, pforest. It looks fine, great gameplay, a remake would be worthless. What I think you fail to understand, or fail to explain correctly, is what a 'real remake' is. You've said a lot of things. But ultimately are just echoing what I say in a different way. Please stop this, it's non-predictive. I am here to re-build the map from scratch, to improve the map, take gameplay requests(if everyone agrees with them) but mainly improve the visuals.
4) I'm aware of what you're doing, and I think it's a waste unless you seek to fix the problems for those who hate the map (which I do). Terrain/Visuals helps new players, cause it looks nicer. Sure. But, the mid of that map could use some serious reworking. As I said before, people love or hate it.
You can't please everyone on this game. There are even those who dislike DT's maps, they prefer plain, simple, "straight-wall" maps. I try to please the majority. As I have said already, I am already disgussing changing certain, small elements of gameplay. But remember, there are people who really like mid as well, adjusting mid may make them not want to play the remade version. For example, matzemr, I told him mid may be almost exactly the same gameplay and he said that was good. So, you know, can't please everyone, therefore, your point is worthless, not adding anything. In a sense, you are once again, echoing what I am doing, in a twisted manor.
5) You refused to accurately respond to my posts till now, you brought it as off topic as myself. I have an ego, you're ignorant. Get over it. My criticism is still more helpful than 90% of what people in this community give. None of my posts about maps have anything ego-related, my posts in other sections do. I'm not a good mapper, I've made a few average/below average maps, so I have no reason to be arrogant about it.
You claim I am ignorant, you are correct in that claim, however, only partially correct. I am ignorant towards you, with certain variables. When I feel that your feedback will not improve my map. Ask omni, I am always looking to improve. I've told him about my countless testing maps I have made and don't publish. I wouldn't say I am arrogant, I'd say I'm cautious of not letting people bring me down as they have in the past. Like when luckie said "Don't make maps, you just can't do it", for example. He called me arrogant for ignoring him, does that make him right? Nope :)
As for Omni/Skyro - I said they aren't great mappers, and they aren't experienced to "know" gameplay. But, you've considered yourself a good mapper when you released your first map(s), saying they were great. Look at them now, compare them to your current maps. You've improved. But compare your current ones to DT, and there's still a lot of room for improvement. Same with many mappers. Stay humble, and you get humble feedback.
Again, the obvious. There's always room to improve. I find it funny how you are the only one here that I haven't had much humble feedback from. I am sorry if I have made you have the perception that I am arrogant, think I am a good mapper etc. I can be a little "defensive" at times, but that's just because of people like you who just try to bring people down. Based off reading threads you've made in the past to people, you are one of those typical haters, that unless you gain something out of what someone else is doing, [e.g ego boost], you will just hate and post flame. I accept that you may have changed from this, but from what I have seen, by my own opinion, you've got a lot of room to improve too ;) (Again, the obvious.)
I feel like I've wasted a lot of time typing this up, considering that you'll probably reply again and expect me to make another reply like this one, only to find we're going round in circles, not making this project any better. I kindly ask that you withdraw posting in my thread, until I have a bsp file published. Then, if you decide that you have some good, real feedback on gameplay, you can post. But I have had enough of wasting my time with these type of replies, when I have better things to do.
(heavily thinking about it, you won't even gain anything from this map, being as you are now inactive in the game because "LoL > DP", so go play LoL and leave us people alone who will actually see the benefits)
With regards, I state, goodbye myers :)
-
Jmr he means remakes should change that map like what dirty taco did to the real protest and real Renoir and what I did from rally to the rally remake, we upgraded both visuals an the game play.
-
Jmr he means remakes should change that map like what dirty taco did to the real protest and real Renoir and what I did from rally to the rally remake, we upgraded both visuals an the game play.
I know exactly what he means and I have replied accordingly. My point is that I am upgrading visuals.. remaking them completely AND upgrading the gameplay for the BETTER in doing so...
EDIT: But he can't judge my gameplay until I release a bsp file. However, any suggestions for paths or what you'd LIKE to see are highly appreciated. It's all well and good saying "gameplay" but people already like the gameplay in wob, that's why it's played so much.
Sometimes I feel like it's pointless replying to some people at all, being as very few seem to read it.
-
Sometimes I feel like it's pointless replying to some people at all, being as very few seem to read it.
Welcome to my world! I mean, it took you 6 pages before you actually gave me a real response. And even your most recent response shows you lack intelligence and are trying super hard to act like you're smart. It's laughable. My last response was 100% in response to your map, things you have not stated and should do - and you took it defensively. Do I intimidate you that much little boy?
EDIT: Ok Jitspoe is on a rampage deleting every time I reply, so I'll write it in an edit: IF YOURE GOING TO FAKE A QUOTE JMR TO TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT I WROTE, DO IT PROPERLY. I SAID IF I OPENED UP BSP AND TOOK A excrement ON MY KEYBOARD IT WOULD STILL BE A BETTER MAP THEN ANYTHING YOU DID. WHAT KINDA FGT SAYS WITH REGARDS YOU IDIOT.
Have a nice day friend.
-
Welcome to my world! I mean, it took you 6 pages before you actually gave me a real response. And even your most recent response shows you lack intelligence and are trying super hard to act like you're smart. It's laughable.
Not even gonna type this out again... (btw, who mentioned smart in the first place? Not me... :D)
You claim I am ignorant, you are correct in that claim, however, only partially correct. I am ignorant towards you, with certain variables. When I feel that your feedback will not improve my map. Ask omni, I am always looking to improve. I've told him about my countless testing maps I have made and don't publish. I wouldn't say I am arrogant, I'd say I'm cautious of not letting people bring me down as they have in the past. Like when luckie said "Don't make maps, you just can't do it", for example. He called me arrogant for ignoring him, does that make him right? Nope :)
EDIT:
IF I OPENED UP BSP AND TOOK A EXCREMENT ON MY KEYBOARD IT WOULD STILL BE A BETTER MAP THEN ANYTHING YOU DID
I kindly ask that you withdraw posting in my thread, until I have a bsp file published. Then, if you decide that you have some good, real feedback on gameplay, you can post. But I have had enough of wasting my time with these type of replies, when I have better things to do.
(heavily thinking about it, you won't even gain anything from this map, being as you are now inactive in the game because "LoL > DP", so go play LoL and leave us people alone who will actually see the benefits)
With regards, I state, goodbye myers :)
-
obi doesnt want you to remake his map and i think myers has made the best comments in the last 5 month but unfortunately his posts getting deleted
#nice#try#dontbanmepls
-
obi doesnt want you to remake his map and i think myers has made the best comments in the last 5 month but unfortunately his posts getting deleted
#nice#try#dontbanmepls
If he doesn't want him to remake it then tell him to post here and explain why.
-
That tunnel looks like someone's GI tract, maybe craft the mid exit into a sphincter, make the map more shitty. Visual upgrade or remake, pick one.
-
That tunnel looks like someone's GI tract, maybe craft the mid exit into a sphincter, make the map more shitty. Visual upgrade or remake, pick one.
I'm picking both and trying to improve the gameplay. Remake means to make something again, or make something again differently. I'm making wobluda again differently, but with the same wobluda principals.... As I have already explained.
I am re sculpting wobluda and I AM adjusting certain small parts of flow here and there with terrain, I think about my terrain hard. Also, as Rick correctly pointed out, I can ALWAYS go back and change some terrain if the public wants a certain part changed, there will be BETAs, I want you guys to decide how you want it to flow/what parts you think don't go so well. However, like the original wobluda, there will always be somewhere to improve. ALL the proper jumps will work and I will try to maybe make some new ones too. The map may go towards a snowy scene, mixed with grass, to make the ice jump actually more natural and not random.
You have provided no actual visual feedback, the tone of your reply was flame. Feedback gives insight on how you can improve what you have, flame twists what you have and often doesn't suggest improvements.
-
JMR, shut up right now because your defense isn't doing anyone any good. Focus on making your wobluda remake because THAT is something that will do many people much good.
-
Legitimate feedback:
Why create terrain that is not usable. Look at the best maps of the game, very few of them will have extra bumps and ramps that don't get used. That tunnel is just excessively abstract, highlighted by the clipping wall you added to get rid of getting stuck on it. Protip, if you need to clip off a huge section, it probably isn't a good section. I'm not a good mapper, but I've played enough quake to know good map design when I see it. Take a look at some of the more famous q2 maps, since most paintball maps are kind of stale lately. I think jits posted a q1 map a bit ago that is wonderful, take a glance at it. It's called honey.
-
Legitimate feedback:
Why create terrain that is not usable. Look at the best maps of the game, very few of them will have extra bumps and ramps that don't get used. That tunnel is just excessively abstract, highlighted by the clipping wall you added to get rid of getting stuck on it. Protip, if you need to clip off a huge section, it probably isn't a good section. I'm not a good mapper, but I've played enough quake to know good map design when I see it. Take a look at some of the more famous q2 maps, since most paintball maps are kind of stale lately. I think jits posted a q1 map a bit ago that is wonderful, take a glance at it. It's called honey.
To answer your question: I create terrain on the GROUND to be used, every bit of terrain on the ground I make, is there to be used. Walls are there to BLOCK and BOUNCE. Not to walk on, therefore, the clip brushes provide EXACTLY the same sewer gameplay, as the real one, I made my one slightly wider, then clipped off the 'detail only' section.
Also, you'll find on many of DT's maps, small terrain lumps that are there for only detail - there is NOTHING wrong with this. However, I try to stay away from this when it isn't scenery. Terrain, when mapped well, always provides a good combat ground. When you have large open plain grass areas, it can look barren, irl, it would be hard to find grass that is completely flat, unless you were on a sport field.
An example of how I have used terrain to benefit gameplay:
On the hill from spawn, I mapped the terrain, so you can peak over the middle section to shoot/nade out of.
Another example:
In the base_low ditch, I am making terrain that provides higher parts of grass to jump out of the ditch from, providing more of a variety of ways to combat the enemy from the ditch.
Thanks for your feedback, it makes me be extra careful whilst mapping terrain :)
-
Actually the sewer game play has changed JMR. In the original wobluda you can ramp up the side of the sewer to avoid lines.
-
Actually the sewer game play has changed JMR. In the original wobluda you can ramp up the side of the sewer to avoid lines.
I stand corrected :)
I will work on this so that it is the same.
-
JMR when is the first release coming?
-
JMR when is the first release coming?
I'm sorry to say, but I am holding off this remake until I finish my other map I am working on.
Had a long chat with myers on ts3, he thinks it would be a waste of time for me to "partially" remake wobluda.
So after the current map, I will make a whole new wobluda, just like what DT did to pforest. It will be a whole different map, but with the wobluda principals.
-
Since when is Myers the staple of the communities thoughts?
-
stick with making wobluda look good, it will cause many more arguments and it will be so hard to improve gameplay with everyone agreeing.
-
stick with making wobluda look good, it will cause many more arguments and it will be so hard to improve gameplay with everyone agreeing.
The only game play improvement needed is mid. Mid on this maps horrid.
-
I think if he rebuilds it in his own way and disassociates it with wobluda, then there's a lot more flexibility to revamap areas to improve gameplay.
-
Yeah, that's why DirtyTaco's maps looked so much better in his remakes.
Also, there will be less arguing over if it's a fix or a remake :)
-
I think if he rebuilds it in his own way and disassociates it with wobluda, then there's a lot more flexibility to revamap areas to improve gameplay.
Yeah :)